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Babies who are too young to get vaccinated used to benefit from antibodies passed on via his or her mother's milk which protected the baby for the first vulnerable months of life. Now mothers no longer can pass those antibodies down to their babies because they never acquired natural immunity due to vaccinations and now young babies are left unprotected during their vulnerable earliest months of life.
Babies who are too young to get vaccinated used to benefit from antibodies passed on via his or her mother's milk which protected the baby for the first vulnerable months of life. Now mothers no longer can pass those antibodies down to their babies because they never acquired natural immunity due to vaccinations and now young babies are left unprotected during their vulnerable earliest months of life.
That is untrue. In fact, we have discussed this before.
There is no difference between antibody from disease and antibody from vaccine. There is no reason vaccine-induced antibody cannot be passed on to the baby. For measles, the maternal antibodies in the unvaccinated mothers wear off at about 5 months, for the vaxed moms, about 3 months. There was no difference for mumps, and no significant difference for rubella. Waning of Maternal Antibodies Against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella in Communities With Contrasting Vaccination Coverage "The estimated duration of protection by maternal antibodies among infants in the general population, most of whom were born to vaccinated mothers, was short: 3.3 months for measles, 2.7 months for mumps, 3.9 months for rubella, and 3.4 months for varicella. The duration of protection against measles was 2 months longer for infants born in the orthodox communities, most of whom had unvaccinated mothers. For rubella, mothers in the orthodox communities had higher concentrations of antibodies as compared to the general population." My allowed 3 sentences.
Babies who are too young to get vaccinated used to benefit from antibodies passed on via his or her mother's milk which protected the baby for the first vulnerable months of life. Now mothers no longer can pass those antibodies down to their babies because they never acquired natural immunity due to vaccinations and now young babies are left unprotected during their vulnerable earliest months of life.
Mothers who are vaccinated do pass antibodies to their babies. That is why the Tdap is recommended during every pregnancy and that is why it is recommended that every pregnant woman take the flu vaccine.
"After receiving the whooping cough vaccine, your body will create protective antibodies (proteins produced by the body to fight off diseases) and pass some of them to your baby before birth. These antibodies provide your baby some short-term protection against whooping cough in early life. These antibodies can also protect your baby from some of the more serious complications that come along with whooping cough.
Your protective antibodies are at their highest about 2 weeks after getting the vaccine. So you should get the vaccine late in your pregnancy, preferably during your 27th through 36th week, to give your baby the most protection when she is born."
"In a 2011 study, newborns whose mothers received Tdap during pregnancy were significantly more likely to have protective antibodies against pertussis than newborns whose mothers did not receive Tdap during pregnancy (OR 11.32, P < .001 for anti-pertussis toxin antibody)."
The OR (odds ratio) of 11.32 means that the infants of vaccinated moms were 11 times more likely to have protective antibodies.
In addition, since not every unvaccinated person has had pertussis, a woman who was never vaccinated at all may have no antibodies to pass to her baby.
The same with regard to measles. Most women of childbearing age in the US have never had measles. If they were never vaccinated they would have no antibodies to pass to the baby.
Influenza can be more dangerous to the mother during pregnancy than if she were not pregnant, and flu vaccine in pregnancy reduces the risk the infant will get sick:
"To this end, Sumaya et al. investigated the immunogenicity of the 1976 monovalent A/New Jersey/8/76 (Hsw1N1) influenza vaccine in 26 maternal serum and cord-blood pairs at the time of delivery. A titer of ≥20 by HI was considered protective against influenza in this study. The GMT of newborn cord bloods was 23.6 and 54% of specimens had protective titers."
"The maternal antibodies are still present at 3 months post-delivery, and wane slowly thereafter. While maternal antibodies may suppress infant responses to influenza vaccination at 1–2 months of life (39), there is no evidence to date suggesting a decreased response to influenza vaccination at 6 months of life."
The article also summarizes the evidence that flu vaccination in pregnancy protects mothers and babies against flu infection.
"Inactivated influenza vaccine reduced proven influenza illness by 63% in infants up to 6 months of age and averted approximately a third of all febrile respiratory illnesses in mothers and young infants. Maternal influenza immunization is a strategy with substantial benefits for both mothers and infants."
That is untrue. In fact, we have discussed this before.
There is no difference between antibody from disease and antibody from vaccine. There is no reason vaccine-induced antibody cannot be passed on to the baby. For measles, the maternal antibodies in the unvaccinated mothers wear off at about 5 months, for the vaxed moms, about 3 months. There was no difference for mumps, and no significant difference for rubella. Waning of Maternal Antibodies Against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella in Communities With Contrasting Vaccination Coverage "The estimated duration of protection by maternal antibodies among infants in the general population, most of whom were born to vaccinated mothers, was short: 3.3 months for measles, 2.7 months for mumps, 3.9 months for rubella, and 3.4 months for varicella. The duration of protection against measles was 2 months longer for infants born in the orthodox communities, most of whom had unvaccinated mothers. For rubella, mothers in the orthodox communities had higher concentrations of antibodies as compared to the general population." My allowed 3 sentences.
The study doesn't compare a 100% vaccinated population to a 100% unvaccinated population. For example, one group of mothers had a 51% vaccination rate for measles and the other had a 12% vaccination rate for measles. The study averaged the results which doesn't let us know the true results of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Even with the average though, the babies born to the lesser vaccinated (natural immunity) group of mothers had an additional 2 months of protection then those born the more vaccinated group. The authors of the study conclude that they expect with increased vaccination that the duration of protection from maternal antibodies will continue to decrease. It would be interesting to see 100% vs 0% to find the whole truth regarding this. Regardless, the additional two months of protection is significant and does not support your statement that "there is no difference".
They had to work with what they had to work with. You go find such a sample that meets your approval.
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Regardless, the additional two months of protection is significant and does not support your statement that "there is no difference".
No difference for rubella and no significant difference for mumps, PER THE LINK! Since you went over it with a fine tooth comb to find all the faults of the study, surely you saw that! In addition, your initial statement that vaccinated mothers cannot pass antibody to their babies is untrue!
Interesting earlier studies concerning the pertussis vaccine. Epidemiology of pertussis. - PubMed - NCBI
To summarize, When the whole cell pertussis vaccine came out in 1962, the rates of pertussis declined with the all time low in 1976. Pertussis started to rise again in the 1980's and in 1993 we saw the highest incidence of pertussis since 1967.
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Growth of a susceptible adult population appears to be the primary factor contributing to the resurgence of pertussis in the United States; widespread immunization has reduced the potential for individuals to acquire exposure-induced immunity.
Due to this we have more teens and adults with pertussis and those cases tend to get overlooked as pertussis in adults and teens looks different and less serious then pertussis in young children. Dues to this, more babies are put at risk for exposure from adults who did not get long term immunity from the vaccine.
The incidence of whooping cough in children has decreased by at least 50%, but the proportion of cases occurring in infants younger than 12 weeks of age has doubled to 30% of all cases. Formerly most young infants acquired their illness from siblings or other children, but in the recent period adults in the household were the most common source of infection to neonates and young infants. This observation plus the increasingly high level of immunization in preschool and school-aged children suggest that young adults with waning immunity and mild illness are a major reservoir for transmission of pertussis to infants too young to be immunized.
The study doesn't compare a 100% vaccinated population to a 100% unvaccinated population. For example, one group of mothers had a 51% vaccination rate for measles and the other had a 12% vaccination rate for measles. The study averaged the results which doesn't let us know the true results of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Even with the average though, the babies born to the lesser vaccinated (natural immunity) group of mothers had an additional 2 months of protection then those born the more vaccinated group. The authors of the study conclude that they expect with increased vaccination that the duration of protection from maternal antibodies will continue to decrease. It would be interesting to see 100% vs 0% to find the whole truth regarding this. Regardless, the additional two months of protection is significant and does not support your statement that "there is no difference".
It's not necessary to have pure vaccinated versus unvaccinated groups to draw conclusions.
The two additional months provided by higher antibody levels in mothers who had immunity due to measles infection still does not provide protection to the age at which the first MMR is given: 12 to 15 months. If the baby is not vaccinated at all, the maternal antibodies in infancy pretty much become irrelevant, since the child is left totally unprotected against measles and must count on herd immunity for protection.
I note you have quoted an article that contradicts your previous statement that vaccinated mothers do not pass antibodies to their children.
To summarize, When the whole cell pertussis vaccine came out in 1962, the rates of pertussis declined with the all time low in 1976. Pertussis started to rise again in the 1980's and in 1993 we saw the highest incidence of pertussis since 1967.
The article is 20 years old.
The rise in pertussis cases is also related to the switch to the less effective acellular vaccine, and recognition that more cases were in adolescents led to the addition of a Tdap booster for that age group in 2005.
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Due to this we have more teens and adults with pertussis and those cases tend to get overlooked as pertussis in adults and teens looks different and less serious then pertussis in young children. Dues to this, more babies are put at risk for exposure from adults who did not get long term immunity from the vaccine.
Pertussis disease does not produce permanent immunity, and unlike measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox, is not one of the diseases that children virtually universally got prior to the vaccine. Therefore you cannot assume that someone who has not been vaccinated has any immunity at all.
Yes, the pertussis vaccine is not perfect. Yes, adults can give pertussis to babies. That is why adults (and adolescents) who will be around babies should get the Tdap vaccine booster.
The best way to reduce the number of pertussis cases remains to be vaccinated, both with the primary series and boosters. Meanwhile, the vaccine experts are working on a better vaccine.
The original DTP came out in 1948, so an article from 1978 was hardly "early observations in the post vaccine era."
The population of study in the article is infants less than 12 weeks of age, the very age group which can be protected by vaccinating their mothers with the Tdap during pregnancy and making sure that other family members and caregivers also have had the Tdap.
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 04-22-2016 at 10:58 PM..
It's not necessary to have pure vaccinated versus unvaccinated groups to draw conclusions.
Of course it's not. But what would the difference be if it were even 90% vaccinated vs. 90% natural immunity. It would be interesting to see how those numbers changed and how far.
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The two additional months provided by higher antibody levels in mothers who had immunity due to measles infection still does not provide protection to the age at which the first MMR is given: 12 to 15 months. If the baby is not vaccinated at all, the maternal antibodies in infancy pretty much become irrelevant, since the child is left totally unprotected against measles and must count on herd immunity for protection.
Again, those numbers in the study were averages comparing one group with just a little over 50% vaccination rate to one around 12%. What more could we learn from a greater spread, even 80% to 10% would tell us a lot more.
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I note you have quoted an article that contradicts your previous statement that vaccinated mothers do not pass antibodies to their children.
Yes I did.
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The article is 20 years old.
Yes, I know that. Which is why I mentioned earlier studies when introducing it. Thanks for writing 20 in red.
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The rise in pertussis cases is also related to the switch to the less effective acellular vaccine, and recognition that more cases were in adolescents led to the addition of a Tdap booster for that age group in 2005.
There are several reasons for the rise in cases. This 20 year old study shows that some of it may have been due to increased vaccination rates. As does the study from the 70's.
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Pertussis disease does not produce permanent immunity, and unlike measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox, is not one of the diseases that children virtually universally got prior to the vaccine. Therefore you cannot assume that someone who has not been vaccinated has any immunity at all.
Natural immunity is longer lasting then vaccine induced.
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The original DTP came out in 1948, so an article from 1978 was hardly "early observations in the post vaccine era."
According to the 20 year old article vaccine rates became stable and steady in the 60's. The 1978 article was pretty early in it's observations.
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The population of study in the article is infants less than 12 weeks of age, the very age group which can be protected by vaccinating their mothers with the Tdap during pregnancy and making sure that other family members and caregivers also have had the Tdap.
These studies show the vaccine contributed to the problem of earlier infection with pertussis yet in your mind, more vaccines is always the answer.
Last edited by MissTerri; 04-23-2016 at 07:25 AM..
That is untrue. In fact, we have discussed this before.
There is no difference between antibody from disease and antibody from vaccine. There is no reason vaccine-induced antibody cannot be passed on to the baby. For measles, the maternal antibodies in the unvaccinated mothers wear off at about 5 months, for the vaxed moms, about 3 months. There was no difference for mumps, and no significant difference for rubella. Waning of Maternal Antibodies Against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella in Communities With Contrasting Vaccination Coverage "The estimated duration of protection by maternal antibodies among infants in the general population, most of whom were born to vaccinated mothers, was short: 3.3 months for measles, 2.7 months for mumps, 3.9 months for rubella, and 3.4 months for varicella. The duration of protection against measles was 2 months longer for infants born in the orthodox communities, most of whom had unvaccinated mothers. For rubella, mothers in the orthodox communities had higher concentrations of antibodies as compared to the general population." My allowed 3 sentences.
There is a factor you are leaving out here concerning material antibodies. Breastfeeding. The infant will continue to receive her antibodies through her milk, unless of course she formula feeds instead. What is the average duration of breastfeeding? 3 months? 6 months? What about a 2 year old still nursing? Do the antibodies in mother's milk stop after a certain duration of time also? If yes, then a mother tandem nursing a newborn and a toddler should have no antibodies at all left?
There is a factor you are leaving out here concerning material antibodies. Breastfeeding. The infant will continue to receive her antibodies through her milk, unless of course she formula feeds instead. What is the average duration of breastfeeding? 3 months? 6 months? What about a 2 year old still nursing? Do the antibodies in mother's milk stop after a certain duration of time also? If yes, then a mother tandem nursing a newborn and a toddler should have no antibodies at all left?
Worldwide the average duration of breastfeeding is 4.2 years. The average duration in the US is 3 months. By 6 months only 13% of US mothers are still nursing. A mother who is tandem nursing will still be able to provide all of the benefits of breast milk to her newborn including colostrum and antibodies.
One of the most amazing things about breastfeeding is that not only can the mother pass antibodies to her baby for illnesses that she had but the baby can pass germs to the mom via feeding for something that mom has not had or does not have antibodies for and mom's body will respond by making antibodies and passing them back to the baby. LLLI | FAQ: Can breastfeeding prevent illnesses?
Regarding antibodies in milk,
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“Antibodies are abundant in human milk throughout lactation” (Nutrition During Lactation 1991; p. 134). In fact, some of the immune factors in breastmilk increase in concentration during the second year and also during the weaning process. (Lawrence & Lawrence 2011, Goldman 1983, Goldman & Goldblum 1983, Institute of Medicine 1991) “Human milk in the second year postpartum contained significantly higher concentrations of lactoferrin, lysozyme and Immunoglobulin A, than milk bank samples” collected from donors less than 12 months postpartum. (Perrin 2016)
Last edited by MissTerri; 04-23-2016 at 08:43 AM..
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