Why is secondhand smoke not considered a form of assault? (stats, government)
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Services not safety regulations two different things. You are reaching...
Sti arguing for the sake of arguing eeh.. Go talk to your rep and good luck. You haven't even proposed a solution... Except offering an assault for smoking which is absolutely Poppycock.
As I said.. I think current laws are adequate and your judgment is clouded (seriously assault for smoking??) ... Laws made to impose parenting common sense and etc.. Always end up taking away people's freedom.
I have not commented on the idea of legal assault at all. All I have said is that I personally prefer not to be assaulted by cigarette smoke, even outdoors. Frankly, with the advent of vaping, there is no reason for anyone to smoke tobacco products in public any more. That does not address the fact that the safety of vaping has not been established.
As far as services are concerned, perhaps every bar should be able to offer the services of a prostitute?
I have not commented on the idea of legal assault at all. All I have said is that I personally prefer not to be assaulted by cigarette smoke, even outdoors. Frankly, with the advent of vaping, there is no reason for anyone to smoke tobacco products in public any more. That does not address the fact that the safety of vaping has not been established.
As far as services are concerned, perhaps every bar should be able to offer the services of a prostitute?
In other words... You have no stance on what you want... You are just whining.
I am actually a supporter of legalized prostitution... with heavy regulation considering the nature of business. I have been quite involved in that effort.
Remember? "Call your rep and good luck" I meant it.
I think you are being silly now that trying to move this conversation into sex work... DEFLECTION. If you want feel free to resurrect any number of threads here on sex work rather than steer this thread. You can search against my username. I think you will find yourself quite out of you element in that conversation.
Some but not all of the reasons overlap. However sex work has a much more involved.... It involves the safety of sex workers and eliminating trafficking. Something that is irrelevant in this discussion about smoking.
Again... You don't like something.. You want to further regulate it... It is only a matter of time that someone else won't like something about you and target your group for regulation. Do not be so quick to wish for laws to legislate common sense and how people should live... It almost always ends up being used to deny people choice and freedoms.
I will also remind you, that I did support banning smoking in Most places. I am in agreement. However you seem to want to ban smoking from All places that you just might happen to walk by. That is silly. You planning to casually walk through a smoking bar just to complain more?
PS. Vaping is not a substitute for us cigar smokers... No more than grape juice is a substitute for wine drinkers
In other words... You have no stance on what you want... You are just whining.
I am actually a supporter of legalized prostitution... with heavy regulation considering the nature of business. I have been quite involved in that effort.
Remember? "Call your rep and good luck" I meant it.
I think you are being silly now that trying to move this conversation into sex work... DEFLECTION. If you want feel free to resurrect any number of threads here on sex work rather than steer this thread. You can search against my username. I think you will find yourself quite out of you element in that conversation.
Some but not all of the reasons overlap. However sex work has a much more involved.... It involves the safety of sex workers and eliminating trafficking. Something that is irrelevant in this discussion about smoking.
Again... You don't like something.. You want to further regulate it... It is only a matter of time that someone else won't like something about you and target your group for regulation. Do not be so quick to wish for laws to legislate common sense and how people should live... It almost always ends up being used to deny people choice and freedoms.
I will also remind you, that I did support banning smoking in Most places. I am in agreement. However you seem to want to ban smoking from All places that you just might happen to walk by. That is silly. You planning to casually walk through a smoking bar just to complain more?
PS. Vaping is not a substitute for us cigar smokers... No more than grape juice is a substitute for wine drinkers
I am not the whiner here. The whining is from smokers who want to smoke when and where they want to smoke and can no longer do so.
You were the one who brought up business services. I just gave an example.
The smokers who lack consideration for non-smokers are the ones who are finding themselves with fewer and fewer places to smoke, including some outdoor venues.
Plenty of people are using vaping to get their nicotine. Perhaps you should try it.
The smokers who lack consideration for non-smokers are the ones who are finding themselves with fewer and fewer places to smoke, including some outdoor venues.
Plenty of people are using vaping to get their nicotine. Perhaps you should try it.
Ugh... You do not smoke cigars for nicotine...
Cigar smokers are the most impacted. It takes an hour to smoke one and are enjoyed most with liquor and wine. They are smoked for the flavor. So when smoke ban went into effect it essentially eliminated smoking venues for cigars completely. When was the last time you saw cigar smoker standing at a designated smoke area? You do not.
You can no longer enjoy a cigar WITH a drink since you have to be outside where alcohol cannot be consumed ed. You can no longer enjoy a cigar AND relax because you have to stand outdoors where there is no seating. You can no longer enjoy it because a full cigar can take more than an hour to smoke.... Standing, outside, sans drink for hours? How is that enjoyable? It freaking sucks.... It ruins the whole experience
Typically you also do not get cigar smokers who smoke throughojt the day. Much like drinking they are enjoyed in social situations or on occasion. I do not smoke every day to feed some addiction.. I can go weeks months without it..
I do not smoke. Cigarettes.
There is a saying
Seek to understand, then seek to be understood.
I think you should consider that approach.
I personally think they have every right to complain. As I said... Laws are compromises. While I agree that smoking banned indoors and restaurants... We should still accommodate elsewhere... Including outdoor venues as well as businesses who decode that smoking environment should be part of their services rendered. Instead we eliminate almost all areas AND heavily tax it. That really isn't fair. It would be also unfair if smokers where allowed to smoke anywhere in any place. That is not fair either.
There has to be a compromise.
You admit that there are those that are whining because there are fewer and fewer places they can smoke. Yet you whine to reduce that even more... Till when? When all places have been eliminated? How is that fair?
I am not the whiner here. The whining is from smokers who want to smoke when and where they want to smoke and can no longer do so.
You were the one who brought up business services. I just gave an example.
The smokers who lack consideration for non-smokers are the ones who are finding themselves with fewer and fewer places to smoke, including some outdoor venues.
Plenty of people are using vaping to get their nicotine. Perhaps you should try it.
So...let them eat cake?
Unfortunately, both good/considerate and bad/inconsiderate smokers alike are slapped when ever more restrictive laws are put into place - that should be obvious to you.
And, due to people like yourselves, vaping is also coming under the same purview as cigarettes even though they don't contain tobacco and are smokeless. So, don't act as though you're being charitable and helpful and open-minded with your suggestions - it is clear that is not your intent.
I feel like I am being assaulted when I walk out of a store, and am immediately hit by cigarette smoke.
I stayed a week in a local motel, no smoking. That is a joke, the room stunk so badly of cigarettes, just like almost every "no smoking" place I have stayed at. And as a topper, the 25ft rule that is in-place in most states, is never obeyed. So at this motel, people were standing right outside my door, smoking........and yes, it does come into my room and yes, I have to walk through smoke to get into/out-of my room.
Blame the hotel... I stay at many hotels and I do complain when it smells. Usually I get moved to another room which is fine. I also request that I do not get on a floor that has smoking rooms. If they cannot, I go to another hotel.
Smoking areas are supposed to be distanced from doorways.
Do not blame the entire pop for people who don't obey. If they do not follow the law now what makes you think they will woth more regulation... Speak your mind...
Mostly FL, NJ, NY and TX... I have had one time it was a problem that hotel could not accommodate. We ended up leaving to another hotel and complained to corporate.
Cigar smokers are the most impacted. It takes an hour to smoke one and are enjoyed most with liquor and wine. They are smoked for the flavor. So when smoke ban went into effect it essentially eliminated smoking venues for cigars completely. When was the last time you saw cigar smoker standing at a designated smoke area? You do not.
You can no longer enjoy a cigar WITH a drink since you have to be outside where alcohol cannot be consumed ed. You can no longer enjoy a cigar AND relax because you have to stand outdoors where there is no seating. You can no longer enjoy it because a full cigar can take more than an hour to smoke.... Standing, outside, sans drink for hours? How is that enjoyable? It freaking sucks.... It ruins the whole experience
Typically you also do not get cigar smokers who smoke throughojt the day. Much like drinking they are enjoyed in social situations or on occasion. I do not smoke every day to feed some addiction.. I can go weeks months without it..
I do not smoke. Cigarettes.
There is a saying
Seek to understand, then seek to be understood.
I think you should consider that approach.
I personally think they have every right to complain. As I said... Laws are compromises. While I agree that smoking banned indoors and restaurants... We should still accommodate elsewhere... Including outdoor venues as well as businesses who decode that smoking environment should be part of their services rendered. Instead we eliminate almost all areas AND heavily tax it. That really isn't fair. It would be also unfair if smokers where allowed to smoke anywhere in any place. That is not fair either.
There has to be a compromise.
You admit that there are those that are whining because there are fewer and fewer places they can smoke. Yet you whine to reduce that even more... Till when? When all places have been eliminated? How is that fair?
My younger son once came home from school (he was in the second grade) and, when asked what he had learned that day, he said, "You know, life is not fair." There had actually been a class discussion about it. It appears you have still not learned what he did in the second grade.
I understand just fine. You want to be able to smoke cigars in a public place. Why should the majority of the public have to cater to your wants? And if it is a need, not a want, you are addicted.
If you smoke as seldom as you claim, why not invite a few smoking buddies to your home and enjoy your cigar and drink there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
So...let them eat cake?
Unfortunately, both good/considerate and bad/inconsiderate smokers alike are slapped when ever more restrictive laws are put into place - that should be obvious to you.
And, due to people like yourselves, vaping is also coming under the same purview as cigarettes even though they don't contain tobacco and are smokeless. So, don't act as though you're being charitable and helpful and open-minded with your suggestions - it is clear that is not your intent.
The more you write, the more I am convinced you are a smoker, despite your protestations otherwise.
Unfortunately there are far more inconsiderate than considerate smokers. My immediate family and social circle includes only one smoker, and she knows not to smoke around me.
The people that the considerate smokers need to talk to are the inconsiderate smokers, not the non-smokers. Why do some smokers insist on smoking in the bleachers at a high school football game, for example?
As far as vaping is concerned, my position is that it appears to be safer than smoking for the vaper, but the evidence is not yet in concerning what remaining hazards it may have for the vaper who still uses nicotine. Sidestream vapor from an e-cigarette that uses nicotine does contain nicotine. It is not just water vapor. Until any adverse effects of sidestream e-cigarette vapor are clarified, including the devices in indoor bans is not unreasonable.
I understand just fine. You want to be able to smoke cigars in a public place. Why should the majority of the public have to cater to your wants? And if it is a need, not a want, you are addicted.
Ugh... Life is not fair.. I could say the same.. You don't like smokers outside near doorways. Well tough luck whiner! LIFE IS NOT FAIR. LOL go speak to your rep. But I do not believe in that.. I believe in laws that allow people choice and do not infringe....
Its actually a little insulting comparing me to your kid. And a terrible lesson to teach kids to simply suck it up.. Life is unfair when they deem something is wrong. You should be teaching them appropriate ways to disagree and actions to take. Perhaps I should call into question your parenting skills? Maybe an open mind?
I have not said that I expect the majority of people to cater to my wants... What I have said is that businesses should be allowed to dictate what services they are allowed to provide. Businesses that are specific to smokers.. Whether or not smokers are the majority or minority is irrelevant. I am not saying that businesses that do not want smoking should be forced to cater to smokers... That is not fair either.
There are many boutiques and niche businesses that cater to a minority interest. Are you claiming that business must prove majority interest in order to make business choices?
Think about what you are asking? It's so unfair and infringing on the core values here.
Addiction is defined by a compulsion that impact quality of life. Having a cigar on a weekly or monthly basis doesn't prevent me from living and working. Literally anything can turn into an addiction... Food including.
You pretty much just want people to live by your definitions.... And stretch weak arguments to make a case. That isn't how things work. You do not want that.. Because some day someone will start dictating your choices away.
As for smoking at home.... Why do we have bars? Why do people eat out? People can drink and cook at home. You fail to understand the key difference thus not worth discussing. It is obvious to most and irrelevant to the stance I have taken.. I do not think you are being genuine here. And why should a business not cater to a market that exists? You are all about sacrificing choices to dictate lifestyle of your choice... That is un-American
Ugh... Life is not fair.. I could say the same.. You don't like smokers outside near doorways. Well tough luck whiner! LIFE IS NOT FAIR. LOL go speak to your rep. But I do not believe in that.. I believe in laws that allow people choice and do not infringe....
I have not said that I expect the majority of people to cater to my wants... What I have said is that businesses should be allowed to dictate what services they are allowed to provide. Businesses that are specific to smokers.. Whether or not smokers are the majority or minority is irrelevant. I am not saying that businesses that do not want smoking should be forced to cater to smokers... That is not fair either.
Addiction is defined by a compulsion that impact quality of life. Having a cigar on a weekly or monthly basis doesn't prevent me from living and working. Literally anything can turn into an addiction...
You pretty much just want people to live by your definitions.... And stretch weak arguments to make a case. That isn't how things work. You do not want that.. Because some day someone will start dictating your choices away
As for smoking at home.... Why do we have bars? Why do people eat out? People can drink and cook at home. You fail to understand the key difference thus not worth discussing. It is obvious to most and irrelevant to the stance I have taken.. I do not think you are being genuine here. And why should a business not cater to a market that exists? You are all about sacrificing choices to dictate lifestyle of your choice... That is un-American.
Why do smokers feel the need to congregate near doorways? Those are the people you need to talk to. Their behavior is the impetus behind outdoor smoking bans.
The majority have decided that indoor smoking bans are in the public interest. Sorry that that interferes with your wants.
The slippery slope argument seldom wins a debate.
If you want a place to smoke away from home, start your own private club.
The market you think exists is small and getting smaller as the smokers quit or die off and fewer people even start smoking. Non-smoking laws have resulted in reduction in employee illness and absenteeism, reduced building maintenance costs, and even lowered fire insurance rates for some businesses. It would be a poor business plan to exclude non-smokers from your proposed clientele. There are far more of them.
Speaking of social clubs, even some VFW and American Legion posts are going smoke free - voluntarily.
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 06-26-2017 at 05:10 PM..
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