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The businessman's argument: illegals work hard and will work jobs that Americans won't do. Even if illegals were kicked out of the country and wages were raised, Americans still wouldn't do those jobs.
The regular Joe argument: Americans would do the jobs if businesses were willing to pay a fair wage. Businessmen that hire illegals want cheaper employees that are afraid to complain and fight for their fair share.
I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle...like always. Not all Americans would want to do the work that many illegals do, but I do think at the right price, unemployed/underemployed Americans would certainly consider the opportunity. If I was a Central American illegal in TX and made modest (by American standards) cash in a hard labor job, I could take that money home and live an upper-middle class lifestyle with ease. I guarantee if a poor white guy in West Virginia or a poor black guy in Detroit could go to Dubai and make 10 to 20x more money than they could make here doing the same work, they'd jump at the chance. That's the whole point. Many of these guys send money home. What would be "meh" money here is "really dang good" money over there. You can stay here and take care of your family quite well back home. Some decide to stay here while quite a few return home in a much better position than they ever could have achieved otherwise.
The illegals are generally hard working people but they're also VERY intelligent. If working out in the fields was a poor financial decision, they'd never cross the border. For most Americans that have no ties to a 3rd world country where US Dollars stretch like the sun, working for the same wages as an illegal isn't really a sound decision.
It's not just that they'd be working in the fields for the same money the illegals make, It's that they'd have to endure labor practices that are illegal, but that the undocumented workers are forced to put up with. American workers know their rights, and can make a claim for them, whereas people in the country illegally can be exploited and maltreated.
Don't get too carried away with your idea that we're doing them a favor by paying them cr@p, not allowing them bathroom breaks (what "bathrooms"?), and by raping them in the fields.
I guess for the most part the jobs they "take" would be in the service industry, restaurants, landscaping, construction, and also jobs in agriculture (slaughtering cattle, stablemen). Some of these jobs used to pay pretty good especially for people that don't have a college education or dropped out of high school. Now the wages are ****. If you remove the illegals then the wages would go up some maybe not as high as people would like but they would go up.
The simple fact is no one cares about high school drop outs and convicted felons that compete with illegal immigrants for jobs. They are the most vulnerably but they basically get blamed but shouldn't the government enforce laws and put these businesses in their place to actually try and help Americans and green card holders who are less fortunate? But the fact is no one cares anyone that complains they always hear "you can't compete with an illegal" or " who wants to pick fruit."
Well, your first link is about an issue from 7-11 years ago. The second link is people saying that they liked working there overall. Even one saying they liked working at Sam's Club. I'm not sure what your point was with the links.
Yes that lawsuit was some time ago. You think things have gotten better?
And yes the second link show that American do indeed work these jobs. Some seem to believe citizens go straight from HS to college and straight into a 6 figure job. Many, many citizens work these "low paying" jobs that "Americans won't do".
My point was that these processing plants do indeed have a pool of American citizens to hire from despite their claims otherwise.
The businessman's argument: illegals work hard and will work jobs that Americans won't do. Even if illegals were kicked out of the country and wages were raised, Americans still wouldn't do those jobs.
The regular Joe argument: Americans would do the jobs if businesses were willing to pay a fair wage. Businessmen that hire illegals want cheaper employees that are afraid to complain and fight for their fair share.
I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle...like always. Not all Americans would want to do the work that many illegals do, but I do think at the right price, unemployed/underemployed Americans would certainly consider the opportunity. If I was a Central American illegal in TX and made modest (by American standards) cash in a hard labor job, I could take that money home and live an upper-middle class lifestyle with ease. I guarantee if a poor white guy in West Virginia or a poor black guy in Detroit could go to Dubai and make 10 to 20x more money than they could make here doing the same work, they'd jump at the chance. That's the whole point. Many of these guys send money home. What would be "meh" money here is "really dang good" money over there. You can stay here and take care of your family quite well back home. Some decide to stay here while quite a few return home in a much better position than they ever could have achieved otherwise.
The illegals are generally hard working people but they're also VERY intelligent. If working out in the fields was a poor financial decision, they'd never cross the border. For most Americans that have no ties to a 3rd world country where US Dollars stretch like the sun, working for the same wages as an illegal isn't really a sound decision.
You just described the system in place during the 1940s to 1960s. The BRACERO LAWS made this possible. The big difference now is instead of working here at seasonal jobs and then going home the ILLEGALS of today don't work but collect benefits and never leave.
It's not just that they'd be working in the fields for the same money the illegals make, It's that they'd have to endure labor practices that are illegal, but that the undocumented workers are forced to put up with. American workers know their rights, and can make a claim for them, whereas people in the country illegally can be exploited and maltreated.
Don't get too carried away with your idea that we're doing them a favor by paying them cr@p, not allowing them bathroom breaks (what "bathrooms"?), and by raping them in the fields.
I wonder if RAPE in the fields is more common than it is on so called "elite" college campuses? Both numbers are probably inflated.
When I worked for a cleaning company the best workers were the hispanics. The white and black workers they hired called off, no showed, or came in high.
When I worked for a cleaning company the best workers were the hispanics. The white and black workers they hired called off, no showed, or came in high.
Were you in charge of personnel? You conducted racial profiling on the employees and did drug screening?
My point was that these processing plants do indeed have a pool of American citizens to hire from despite their claims otherwise.
Reality says otherwise. Good luck getting Americans from inner-city Philly to relocate to a small town in Iowa or Nebraska for a slaughterhouse job. There simply aren't enough able bodied adults (locally) willing to do the work in these areas.
My gut feeling is you lack higher education, or at the very least, lack the critical thinking skills required to discuss these issues.
No, I don't think it's half. That was a poor choice of words on her part.
I don't know what the real number would be, but from my own experiences, half may well have been an underestimate. Whatever the actual numbers, the notion that "he has lifted them up" is simply incontestable.
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