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ammo ban would be just as much a violation of the second amendment (and the inherent natural right of self defense)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1
Total gun ban wouldn't work.
Banning ammunition sales would.
An ammo ban would be just as much a violation of the second amendment (and the inalienable natural right of self defense) as a gun ban would be. Many states would simply refuse to enforce any such attempt.
The trigger to the revolutionary war was just as much about the British attempting to confiscate colonists powder and bullets (Lexington and Concord ring a bell?) as anything else.
Although unlikely, what if Congress ratified the second amendment with a total gun ban for civilians. Would it be like the prohibition era where citizen just hid their guns and sold them illegally?
Would there be a massive civil disruption?
Would Senators complain that the economy in their respective states has suffered an irreparable blow due to the lost tourism that depended on hunting? Similarly, all the industries that depend on guns would join the complaints: sporting goods stores, local places that host gun shows, gun and ammo stores, manufacturers, etc?
Would the National Rifle Association of America (NRA) be sued by the government to force it to surrender its database? Would its members be targeted to make them relinquish their weapons?
Would crime rates go down?
Would the government also ratify the 4th Amendment right against search and seizure without a warrant based on probable cause of a specific crime and the 5th Amendment right to due process of law and just compensation for property taken by the government?
I'm just curious I know a very small minority is talking about a total gun ban but I was wondering what you all thought the outcome would be?
It would have the same effect as the Volstead Act, to where no American even thought about drinking alcohol.
A total gun ban ? no then only criminals would have guns and believe me when I say when someone wants something bad enough they will get them and to heck with any ban or law .
A ban would turn millions of otherwise law abiding people into criminals. I don't know how many firearms are in private possession, but there are so many that a ban wouldn't have an affect on gun related crime.
What better way to grow and spread the police state!
A total ban would cause a war unlike anything we have ever seen, there would be battles in the street between police, military and civilians, small and large cities would become war zones, business and industry would shut down due to the danger of being out in public at anytime.
What better way to grow and spread the police state!
A total ban would cause a war unlike anything we have ever seen, there would be battles in the street between police, military and civilians, small and large cities would become war zones, business and industry would shut down due to the danger of being out in public at anytime.
One thing to consider: GOOGLE knows everything. The information Highway is not just a ONE WAY street. I am sure the Government would use ANY/ALL the tools it has available to collect information to identify GUN OWNERS. HOWEVER they might want to consider the fact that information MAY be being collected right now about anyone who has supported gun control laws in any electronic data methods in use. If there is a revolution because of gun confiscations there will be millions of P****D Off citizens that will demand that the bastards supporting gun bans be charged and tried for TREASON. Be careful what you wish for.
Just to head off any ""The government has nuclear weapons argument". Collateral damage will be hard to control.
"Although unlikely, what if Congress ratified the second amendment with a total gun ban for civilians. Would it be like the prohibition era where citizen just hid their guns and sold them illegally?"
Yes, without a doubt. Home firearms manufacturing would expand too-- it is NOT that hard.
"Would there be a massive civil disruption?"
Yes, very delicately phrased. Sort of like what happened at Concord Bridge, I guess.
"Would Senators complain that the economy in their respective states has suffered an irreparable blow due to the lost tourism that depended on hunting? Similarly, all the industries that depend on guns would join the complaints: sporting goods stores, local places that host gun shows, gun and ammo stores, manufacturers, etc?"
Not that large an industry-- CT is, for example, the home of many firearms firms, yet is anti-2A.
"Would the National Rifle Association of America (NRA) be sued by the government to force it to surrender its database? Would its members be targeted to make them relinquish their weapons?"
Ummm.... NRA has only 5 million or so members. Firearms ownership is VASTLY wider than that. The USG has ability to hack civilian databases if they need to.
"Would crime rates go down?"
Crime would go way up, way fast. The government's own numbers show this. Oh-- and Chicago has an effective firearms ban. See how well THAT has worked out?
"Would the government also ratify the 4th Amendment right against search and seizure without a warrant based on probable cause of a specific crime and the 5th Amendment right to due process of law and just compensation for property taken by the government?"
You are KIDDING right? The administration of that time would simply declare a Federal Emergency and suspend whatever rules they thought necessary. Remember Lincoln? FDR? ...aaand, have you considered how HARD confiscation would be to actually do? PROJECTION: look for a rewrite of the Militia Act as the control mechanism.
"I'm just curious I know a very small minority is talking about a total gun ban but I was wondering what you all thought the outcome would be?"
Current laws work quite well, WHEN THEY ARE FOLLOWED. Check the mental health and prescription records of the non-terrorist mass murderers...
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Last edited by Eolector; 02-19-2018 at 12:33 PM..
Reason: Spelling, punctuation, grammar... the usual. Formatting too.
As to whether it would reduce gun Violence - just look at a place like Australia where they used to have quite liberal gun ownership laws - that is until they had a mass shooting and public agreed to make serious changes. Now they ban assault weapons and hi-cap clips and they have had few additional mass shootings.
Or, you could look at a place like Brazil where purchase of guns and ammo to civilians was banned in 2004 yet saw 2012 with the highest rate of gun violence in history. In 2002, Brazil had 30,000 murders, in 2014 it had 60,000. Wrong. Direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Brazil
Our natural rights exist, the constitution just acknowledges them -- repealing line items from the Bill Of Rights does not erase natural rights.
Just because you like to claim that gun ownership is a "natural right" does not make it so. No one can prove that such a thing as a "natural right" even exists. There is human behavior and human thought (on a very wide spectrum), there are societal norms, laws, governments, traditions, expectations, etc that have developed over the centuries. But there is nothing to prove anything is an iron-clad "natural right."
Claiming something is a "natural right" is pretty much a way of saying "This is how I want it to be, so I'm going to end the discussion right there."
The Supreme Court has opined that individuals possess an inherent right to keep and bear arms? – U.S. v. Miller (1939) “part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.” If the military owns it, then the people have a right to own it. As well, – District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes such as “the natural right of resistance and self-preservation.”
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ammo ban would be just as much a violation of the second amendment (and the inherent natural right of self defense)
