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I dunno, MQ..... I am working on the renovation and conversion of a large school building here in the St. Louis area that was built in the 1920's and the architect has been able to get ALL of the original drawings as well as the drawings for additions and renovations done in the 50's.......
BUT.... my house was built in 1978, and I seriously doubt I could locate original drawings for it.... or for any of the other 600 houses in my subdivision....
AND, I am working on renovation of ANOTHER school building, this one built around the turn of the previous century, and dadgummit, NO ONE has been able to lay hands on any of THOSE drawings, so that means I am likely going to have to drive three hours out there and three hours back to get some information that I will need for the certifications they are seeking.....
SERIOUSLY though, the conspiracy theorists are going to pick apart the SLIGHTEST little detail of the tiniest hiccup in your argument..... save your breath and brain cells for what could be a more productive and logical discussion.....
You sound as if you are living in reality world. Congratulations.
Sounds as if you have an interesting job.
I am not an engineer, but spent my career on the periphery of public sector engineering.
There is a specific reason why we see so mahny of those really crazy theories (like there were no planes, or it was a UFO shooting a death ray, etc etc).
Their intended to muddy the water, distort the truth, make the conspiracy theories sound sooo crazy and bizarre, they get lumped together with all the other theories, thus effectively discrediting the more logical ones in the process.
Have you ever seen the crazy tabloid headlines, like "President secretly meets with aliens', they do that on purpose, the crazier and more bizarre the better, but what really happened is a president was probably taken to see UFO material that had been recovered, that is being stored at some military base, but to 'muddy' the water and distort what really happened, something outlandish and crazy is used, ultimately so no one will believe the more realistic story.
Seriously, look up on how and why the CIA used the term 'conspiracy theory', its main purpose was to discredit REAL secrets that had been released, make them so incredibly bizarre, NO ONE will believe any of it is true.
Thanks for this. It inspired me just to check out the origin of conspiracy theory as a linguistic term. The Wikipedia entry sufficed.
The term is being used in this thread (not by you) to label people, and malign them or their view. And this is the same spirit / attitude as what was behind the creation of the term in the first place. It is a judgement of something or someone - an accusation.
If the truth does indeed set you free, then in this context it is from the oppression of the lies, especially of the overarching intent of false flag operations, which is to create fear, so that your liberty can then be taken away by an enhanced policed and controlled society.
And this is a crucial juncture of earth civilization, where societies need to come together and find solutions for all manner of things. It doesn't need more hierarchical control - it is innately understood that top-down edicts don't produce creativity.
Truth, lies and obfuscation can in some way be treated as a mere market place of ideas, but the intent of trading in that market should be more personal and societal freedom.
It is not very accurate to say "the government played a part of allowing it".
There may have been key individuals, perhaps several, who rendered assistance. There will always be Machiavellians, especially ensconced in power and politics. One should likely be more surprised when a large group activity arises without yielding a villain.
Almost the entirety of Congress is also to blame for gross complacency. Congress used to have a few members who would demand a proper investigation of highly curious and important events.
Todays Congress? I hear a squeaky wheel! I have the solution! Lets throw money at it!
It is not very accurate to say "the government played a part of allowing it".
There may have been key individuals, perhaps several, who rendered assistance. There will always be Machiavellians, especially ensconced in power and politics. One should likely be more surprised when a large group activity arises without yielding a villain.
Almost the entirety of Congress is also to blame for gross complacency. Congress used to have a few members who would demand a proper investigation of highly curious and important events.
Todays Congress? I hear a squeaky wheel! I have the solution! Lets throw money at it!
Many heavy hitters in the truth movement would say the same - that only the top few would have detailed knowledge - and that the rest were just following orders (which as per international law, re: Nuremberg, is no defence). And when it comes to throwing the money around, wrt 9/11, the 28 pages nails Saudi Arabia and Bandar Bush as the proof of connection and knowledge.
There was however a landmark victory for Congress against Obama (who vetoed it) in getting the 28 pages released, and the following landslide of getting JASTA legislation passed. So, maybe, just maybe the ordinary man and woman in government can find their teeth, 'for such a time as this'. What happened is explained in the last 15 minutes of this video - watch the mighty Barbara Honegger from 2hrs 05 mins to end - https://youtu.be/X95hyYIC0gg
Last edited by Age-enduring; 04-22-2018 at 09:06 AM..
Thanks for this. It inspired me just to check out the origin of conspiracy theory as a linguistic term. The Wikipedia entry sufficed.
The term is being used in this thread (not by you) to label people, and malign them or their view. And this is the same spirit / attitude as what was behind the creation of the term in the first place. It is a judgement of something or someone - an accusation.
If the truth does indeed set you free, then in this context it is from the oppression of the lies, especially of the overarching intent of false flag operations, which is to create fear, so that your liberty can then be taken away by an enhanced policed and controlled society.
And this is a crucial juncture of earth civilization, where societies need to come together and find solutions for all manner of things. It doesn't need more hierarchical control - it is innately understood that top-down edicts don't produce creativity.
Truth, lies and obfuscation can in some way be treated as a mere market place of ideas, but the intent of trading in that market should be more personal and societal freedom.
Just wanted to clarify on the bolded. I used the term "CT" to identify those who others would call "truthers", because I think CT sounds less pejorative than truther.
Since the range of conspiracy theories is all over the place, I used it as a general term to describe those who believe the government (or individuals therein) were behind the 9/11 attacks.
I've already addressed certain of those theories to demonstrate how they could not be correct, such as the "no-planes" idea, which I can and did tell you first-hand is completely untrue, and the controlled demolition theory, which I reject because professionals I know with first-hand knowledge say it did not happen.
That does not mean that all conspiracy theories are incorrect or that I am using the term disparagingly. I just needed an identifier for purposes of responding in this thread, and, as I said, CT sounds more respectful than "truther".
Many heavy hitters in the truth movement would say the same - that only the top few would have detailed knowledge - and that the rest were just following orders (which as per international law, re: Nuremberg, is no defence). And when it comes to throwing the money around, wrt 9/11, the 28 pages nails Saudi Arabia and Bandar Bush as the proof of connection and knowledge.
There was however a landmark victory for Congress against Obama (who vetoed it) in getting the 28 pages released, and the following landslide of getting JASTA legislation passed. So, maybe, just maybe the ordinary man and woman in government can find their teeth, 'for such a time as this'. What happened is explained in the last 15 minutes of this video - watch the mighty Barbara Honegger from 2hrs 05 mins to end - https://youtu.be/X95hyYIC0gg
"Bandar Bush, he is the guy. He did it!" Well....this is mostly nonsense in my own opinion. Playing a key role? Probably considering the evidence. Bandar had been a key CIA asset for a long time. Nevertheless, pinning responsibility on someone else was deemed important enough to try to pin it all on Bandar Bush, OBL, and the elite hijackers who overcame ex-military pilots with boxcutters. Then proceeded to demonstrate piloting skills that nobody else in the world was capable of. It also dovetails nicely with the long range plan for a Greater Israel that includes much of Saudi Arabia.
Planning for this event started in the 80's....at a minimum. Perhaps it would have been carried out then without some alert souls....at the NYC Port Authority as I recall.
Who has benefited greatly from the outcome?
Cheney...got what he wanted. A prison nation morphing into a prison planet. Never ending wars to satisfy his notorious bloodlust. Unimagined wealth for a political figure. He now co-owns Genel Energy with Rothschild, the one who's name may not be imagined without the conspiracy card being played.
Bush...got what he wanted. A prison nation that relies heavily on his fathers Carlyle Group for supplies. The death of Saddam and destruction of Iraq. Re-election...we needed the experience to guide us through troubled waters. "Rumors" that the Bush family owns the Florida prison contract to feed the inmates. Business is booming if true. Do I believe that Bush was intimately involved? No...but I could see him approving "something big, something very big" and possibly agreeing to co-operate.
Silverstein...aka: Lucky Larry. Bought two insurance policies before the attack and realized double indemnity as a result. "I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse." –Larry Silverstein
Netanyahu: The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.
"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."
Saudi Arabia: The Middle East has bordered on war for centuries. This provided a great excuse to do one of their things....whack some neighbors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY
To get a perspective on the reasons behind the 9/11 attacks, one must go back to the reasons that Crusades occurred one thousand years ago. More recently you can look at the wars with the Barbary Pirates who existed as late as the 19th Century.
Its worth noting, that at some point, WE, the people, become responsible, in that we knowingly allow the same Govt to retain its power, and even gain MORE power/ control as a result!!
If our govt was involved, the PATRIOTIC thing for the people to do, would have been to remove this govt from power immediately, but as ive said before, that patriotic spirit has been engineered out of most people today, 'patriotism' today is mainly just total subservience and obedience.
Its also not any one president or administration to blame, presidents/ administrations come and go over the years, the real problem is the Govt that exists, despite who is in office at the time.
It's worse than the government or president who's in 'power' at any one time - It's the deep state - the Zionist cabal - the world bank owners - they are those controlling the government and leader / commander in chief.
Even if the 9/11 families brought a successful case eventually against the puppet politicians and successfully achieved justice - unlikely - the powers that be would be anywhere between couldn't give a **** to mildly alarmed - then they'll just look for the next pawn and carry on.
But this is why victories like JASTA are so crucial, because it forces the highest powers to take notice.
The right thing to do, whether patriot or not, is to educate, educate, educate, and seek the higher wisdom with how to relate to one another in non hierarchical ways. Democracy is already tuned to work with hierarchical power, but societal relational structure has to be levelled, so no one or few people can be elite and assume control.
It's worse than the government or president who's in 'power' at any one time - It's the deep state - the Zionist cabal - the world bank owners - they are those controlling the government and leader / commander in chief.
Even if the 9/11 families brought a successful case eventually against the puppet politicians and successfully achieved justice - unlikely - the powers that be would be anywhere between couldn't give a **** to mildly alarmed - then they'll just look for the next pawn and carry on.
But this is why victories like JASTA are so crucial, because it forces the highest powers to take notice.
The right thing to do, whether patriot or not, is to educate, educate, educate, and seek the higher wisdom with how to relate to one another in non hierarchical ways. Democracy is already tuned to work with hierarchical power, but societal relational structure has to be levelled, so no one or few people can be elite and assume control.
I agree that its just as important to try to show as many people as possible, the truth about these things. On C-D, I know it seems like Im wasting my breath and time trying to convince people about conspiracies, but I have managed to change a few opinions, and this only happened because they were not aware of things our govt had been involved in in the past.
Like Mk Ultra, I was surprised to see how many many people had no idea what this was!! If more people learned about this and other CTs, they should start to see a pattern, and I hope they can learn to recognize this kind of thing in the headlines, its easy to spot and recognize once you know what to look for and consider who is benefiting and how.
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