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Even though it is inconceivable I would agree with you on anything I appreciate the honesty and sincerity of this post. We stand on opposite sides on most issues but I value quality debate.
Well, I don't know if I'd go that far. Does each of us know where the other stands on most issues?
To touch on what you said earlier, I guess I don't know if I can think of any country as great if I have to take the country's entire history into account. I have friends who moved to Germany a few years ago and their quality of life has increased greatly since, and they're much happier than they ever were here. But if I read a similar post to your OP, but about Germany? Of course I would argue that Germany has not been historically great. I couldn't even tell you it's "great" in 2018, since I've been living in the U.S. all of my life.
That said, if I change the idea I had of your post, and attempted to judge whether we are "great" now...there's still too much negative for me to see us that way, I think. I'm in the Deep South; we never really recovered from the Civil War, to put it lightly.
If I'm looking strictly in relative terms, I'm loath to answer because of the fact that I've never lived anywhere else. I've heard from those who left and would never return here, and from those who made it over here and would never return to their country of origin.
We had slavery for hundreds of years. We had the Trail of Tears. We had Jim Crow. We had internment camps during WWII. We took our sweet time allowing 1) those who did not own property, 2) women, and 3) non-whites, to vote. We criminalized homosexuality until 2003. We did not legalize same-sex marriage until 2015.
Despite all that's positive about the U.S., I think all of that disqualified the country from ever being considered "great."
All correct. And as a Jew myself, I haven't quite forgiven great America from turning away a ship from Germany with hundreds of Jewish refugees escaping from the Nazis. And my two Uncles got beat up on a regular basis after school for being Jewish in the 40's. So it's not like it was some welcoming paradise and no one cared what you practiced or who you were. Not just Jews either. It wasn't that long before those Jews tried to come here that businesses had Help Wanted signs up saying "Irish need not apply".
I don't want to disparage America, but I can't say my opportunities here are all that much better than they'd be if I were born in Canada or another first world country, especially now. My health insurance is my second highest expense behind my mortgage, and it will probably overtake that as I get closer to 60.
It's certainly not as great now that we have slammed the doors in the faces of those who are not that different from our own ancestors, and hate rules the day.
What to your mind is the difference between hubris and pride?
'll have to find the studies I've seen covered, but the last time I read one people of Denmark were the happiest. The majority of the world doesn't work as much or have as much stress as we do, they get like 6 weeks vacation, months of maternity leave, and other similar benefits that add up to a overall happiness. I don't know a lot of truly happy people, most people I know are working their butts off to make their bills and it comes at the expense of time with family and friends, something that is more prized and provided in many other first world countries. I know a lot of people in my personal circles who are on antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs.
The way our nations Constitution is written though, American citizens are not supposed to be compliant or obedient to a tyrannical govt. We are required to do everything we can to remove them from power.
The US govt has been tyrannical for quite some time, (drug laws are just one example). I put majority of the blame on the people (myself included), for we have allowed this govt to continue on for so long, its more convenient and easier to just go along and not stand up for anything or to be patriotic.
Imo, America WAS great at one time, but unfortunately it didnt last too long, changing a president, administration, congressmen, senators, etc are not enough to change it back to the way it was.
'll have to find the studies I've seen covered, but the last time I read one people of Denmark were the happiest. The majority of the world doesn't work as much or have as much stress as we do, they get like 6 weeks vacation, months of maternity leave, and other similar benefits that add up to a overall happiness. I don't know a lot of truly happy people, most people I know are working their butts off to make their bills and it comes at the expense of time with family and friends, something that is more prized and provided in many other first world countries. I know a lot of people in my personal circles who are on antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs.
Yes, indeed. The Scandinavians seem to get the prize for "happiest". Why? In their own words, they do not have to worry about health care, education costs, job security retirement, vacations and all you said above. Who wouldn't be happy with all that stress removed?
Here in my "developing" adopted country, the locals are much happier because amazingly, all the above is covered for them too! Imagine that.
As I woke up this unusually warm September morning to go back to work, I was thinking about myself, my family and my country, in no particular order.
The U.S. is great, and maybe the greatest nation ever. From the incomparable beauty of the ocean beaches, to the waving fields of grain. to the forests of the Appalachians and the rugged beauty of the Rockies and the desert, the physical beauty is incomparable. As a general proposition. America has been and remains a land of opportunity. If you come to work and improve yourself as well as your adopted land, America gave and still gives people a second chance in life. I do carry the flag for my people, the Jews, and the Jews would not be alive in viable numbers in the world if not for America. This greatness has a history.
Prior to the colonization of the New World, the Old World was dominated, depending on where you were, by Islam and/or Christianity (we'll leave Buddhist and Hindu Asia out of the discussion for now). The one thing both had in common was that each was rife with rules and restrictions on what non-majority religions or ethnic groups could do or not do. These restrictions often took a deadly form, with the Spanish inquisition as but one example. Even Moorish Spain, considered a bright spot by many, imposed humiliating restrictions on Jews, known as "dhimmitude". Virtually all European countries prevented Jews from owning land, holding office and, where applicable, voting. These restrictions existed even in England, the cradle of liberty and freedom.
Fortunately, the dam burst during the two centuries after 1492. The Americas were a place where, at least initially, the various King's courts and priests' writs did not run. The focus was on what people could do to tame a wilderness, not the way they chose to worship G-d.
Now, there are other countries that have some or many of these aspects. But not all of them.
America does not need to be made "great again." It is great. And America is by no means perfect. But at least it tries.
Our ideals and aspirations have always been "great".
IMHO we currently have a president with little understanding of those values, and ironically, he is the one who uses the slogan "Make America Great Again". It's obviously a talking point, and a code to the people who follow him.
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"Great" itself is vague - which is what makes the MAGA phrase meaningless at best. Great as in what?
Powerful again - the USA is already a strong superpower, if not a hyperpower. So it's foolish to say America lost its greatness in this regard.
Upholders of Human Dignity again - If anything, we are doing a worse job of upholding human dignity than in the past. Other nations (especially in NW Europe and Australia) long seemed to be pulling further and further ahead of us here. For this kind of greatness, we'd've done better to select Bernie instead of Hillary as the Dem nominee, then had Bernie wipe the floors with Trump's hair (normally I'm not so harsh with other Reps but Trump's taken human indignity to a level unprecedented since slavery, and deserves every bit of slamming he gets).
Prosperous again - Here, the MAGA phrase is more compelling. Real wages have declined since 1973. It's due to a combination of the rich getting richer while the poor getting poorer, while the middle class is just treading water successfully. Furthermore, it's due to too many trade deals with low-wage countries coming too quickly, especially those with atrocious labor, product safety, and environmental standards. But again, Bernie would do a better job of accomplishing this than Hillary, let alone Teddy - and don't even ask about Donnie.
Chest-beating bravado again - That's not greatness. That's cheerleading. Rah Rah Rah! Our team's great. Ha Ha Ha! Your team sucks. If anything, that's an aspect of America I do NOT find so great, and in fact find it embarrassing. That kind of stuff belongs in sporting events, not in actual questions about what makes a nation greater than another (I'll make an exception for this concerning The Olympics, World Cup, etc. as they are sporting events).
Other possible definitions of "great" - I leave to your imagination.
We had slavery for hundreds of years. We had the Trail of Tears. We had Jim Crow. We had internment camps during WWII. We took our sweet time allowing 1) those who did not own property, 2) women, and 3) non-whites, to vote. We criminalized homosexuality until 2003. We did not legalize same-sex marriage until 2015.
Despite all that's positive about the U.S., I think all of that disqualified the country from ever being considered "great."
Put it into perspective. Every race and nation held slaves. Some still do. Where are the great civil rights warriors concerning that? They are out to get rich, that's where they are.
EVERY invader has displaced native peoples. Often they just slaughter the lot of them.
From what I've read of Jackson and the Trail, he saw two outcomes possible, neither good. Stay in place and get displaced and go to war and lose.
Move and have a better chance.
Saudi Arabia. South Africa, taking the last productive farms from the whites. That worked out so well in Rhodesia. Murder, rape, pillaging, non-productive farm land, people hungry, nations went from net-exporters and net-in-migration to net-importers and net out-migration.
If you're going to hang your hat on same sex marriage, fine. It's not a pressing need for most of the world, there are far bigger issues.
MAGA hat was hung on the mole Obama and his endless disparagement of the USA. He did world tours explaining how terrible the USA was. If you're on his side you have little perspective or historical knowledge.
Put it into perspective. Every race and nation held slaves. Some still do. Where are the great civil rights warriors concerning that? They are out to get rich, that's where they are.
EVERY invader has displaced native peoples. Often they just slaughter the lot of them.
From what I've read of Jackson and the Trail, he saw two outcomes possible, neither good. Stay in place and get displaced and go to war and lose.
Move and have a better chance.
Saudi Arabia. South Africa, taking the last productive farms from the whites. That worked out so well in Rhodesia. Murder, rape, pillaging, non-productive farm land, people hungry, nations went from net-exporters and net-in-migration to net-importers and net out-migration.
I feel like that just goes back to the question of whether it's even possible to have a "great" nation, if this is what's to be expected.
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If you're going to hang your hat on same sex marriage, fine. It's not a pressing need for most of the world, there are far bigger issues.
It's certainly up for debate whether civil rights organizations should have made marriage such a pressing issue when there are so many facing the LGBTQ community, but is our culture not centered around marriage? If it is a vital institution in America, then everyone should be permitted an opportunity to partake.
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