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Old 09-06-2018, 01:41 PM
 
50,787 posts, read 36,486,545 times
Reputation: 76588

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
Your working knowledge of former POTUSs is quite limited. Obama for example had a couple of years in the ILL senate and then thanks to some muscle (i.e. competitors got shoved aside by various means) got elected to the US Senate where he did nothing.

He has no resume, no school records, no health records, no birth certificate (fakes using 21st century terminology for 1960 documents don't count if you can reason), and if you listen to him speak, it's clear he's not a particularly bright guy. Nor is he "a brilliant orator." Repeating a Big Lie does not make it true.
Not to mention he hates America.

W OTOH had a record as Texas governor. That makes no difference, he was as incompetent and stupid as Obama.
He fancied himself as a great wartime president. GW, Great Warrior.
He got us into two worse-than-terrible wars of interminable duration (we finished off World War II in under four years) with no objectives, he followed in his daddy's (POTUS #41) footsteps of mucking around in areas where he had no business and absolutely no competence. If Poppy had let Saddam be, the Mideast would not be the utter mess it is today. W also signed off on some terrible legislation which included the absolutely unconstitutional FISA "courts" (hint: it's not a "court" if only one side gets to "testify") and spying on Americans "legalization."

Trump has decades of building success. His TV gig was decades after he'd established himself as a creative builder and tycoon. You should educate yourself.

"FOLLOWING the grand opening of the Wollman Rink this week, New Yorkers can now set their sights on the gala grand opening of the Wollman Rink next week.

Donald J. Trump refurbished the Central Park -skating rink two and a half months ahead of his own speedy six-month schedule and $750,000 below his own projected $3 million budget, having taken over the project after the city spent six years and $12 million unsuccessfully trying to get the job done."
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/15/n...-ice-rink.html

Under budget ahead of schedule. That's Trump's M.O. Obama did everything he could to tear down our nation. Trump is the opposite.
I didn't realize you were this far gone, or I wouldn't have responded at all. Never mind, have a nice day and enjoy your Kool Aid.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:58 PM
 
10,232 posts, read 6,319,495 times
Reputation: 11288
I have asked this question before but nobody wants to answer it. When did America STOP being great? Obama''s election? Clinton's? When Democrats were Presidents?

There is another thread on going back to 1958. That was when it stopped being great? So America stopped being great when JFK was elected?

While 10 then, I certainly remember the 1950's. It was not so great unless you were rich, white, straight, and male. Both my Mom and gay Aunt, RIP, would have something to say about that. My Dad probably would agree but then he was UNION, and those are dirt today.

Ok, so somebody please tell the old woman when America stopped being great. In my book, it is better NOW than when I was growing up for so, so, many people, other than WHITE MEN.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:14 PM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,306,076 times
Reputation: 45727
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
This is the same country that wrote this into its Declartion of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness

then proceed to keep black people in the shackles of slavery for the proceeding 90 years. What makes America truly unique is its inability to grasp the notion of irony.
But black men did eventually acquire their freedom through the Civil War and the Thirteenth Amendment.

Women didn't get the right to vote until 1920 which was one year after my mother was born.

Early on, many states required that in order to vote you had to be a property owner.

Many states used to have a "poll tax" that kept many of the poor from voting. That ended in 1965.

Only recently, have gay people obtained marriage and property rights.

Not everyone acquired their freedom and full rights as a citizen when our nation was formed. However, all gradually have done so.

One key vessel in obtaining liberty and justice for all has been our court system and most particularly our Supreme Court. Another vessel has been a free press guaranteed us by the First Amendment.

Many people cling to notions of natural rights and justice. I, instead, believe that freedom, rights, and justice are part of an evolutionary process. The system proceeds in steps--sometimes baby steps--rather than in terms of monumental change.

It would be nice if we could snap our fingers and make all injustice immediately go away. Life doesn't work that way though whether we are talking about America or any country in the world. Other countries oppressed minorities, had slavery had some point in their history, and repressed women due to paternalistic notions.

Freedom was too long in coming for some groups, but still it got here. It represents America keeping its promises if in belated fashion.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:31 PM
 
2,669 posts, read 2,092,040 times
Reputation: 3690
Before everyone start arguing about this, what does OP mean by the statement that US is "great". What does being a Great country entail?


If this means having the biggest military then I would agree. If this means having the smallest National Debt and no Budget deficit then definitely no. If being "Great" means eradication of poverty and great standard of living for every citizen then the US is not "Great". It is average to below average. So what are we talking about here?
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,810 posts, read 24,321,239 times
Reputation: 32941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I have asked this question before but nobody wants to answer it. When did America STOP being great? Obama''s election? Clinton's? When Democrats were Presidents?

There is another thread on going back to 1958. That was when it stopped being great? So America stopped being great when JFK was elected?

While 10 then, I certainly remember the 1950's. It was not so great unless you were rich, white, straight, and male. Both my Mom and gay Aunt, RIP, would have something to say about that. My Dad probably would agree but then he was UNION, and those are dirt today.

Ok, so somebody please tell the old woman when America stopped being great. In my book, it is better NOW than when I was growing up for so, so, many people, other than WHITE MEN.
Hey, America was so great in the 1950s that we were taught how to hide under our desks.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:11 PM
 
13,284 posts, read 8,455,196 times
Reputation: 31512
The landscape is awe inspiring. That part is true about this land I call home. That has been true and doesn't need 'great' attached to it.
Since reading up on each decades atrocities endured or enforced by this nation I cannot say it was ever great. Has it had extreme moments of progress? Yes indeed!
I sincerely think America is in its teen years mentality..bullying others and thinking they (we) have all the answers. I do hope it finishes this stage and enters into a more humble pie attitude in working with other nations. We might learn something.
The class clown in office needs to finish so we can get a valordictorian in to move in a direction that does give us some hope of being acceptable.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:08 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,597,947 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I have asked this question before but nobody wants to answer it. When did America STOP being great? Obama''s election? Clinton's? When Democrats were Presidents?

There is another thread on going back to 1958. That was when it stopped being great? So America stopped being great when JFK was elected?

While 10 then, I certainly remember the 1950's. It was not so great unless you were rich, white, straight, and male. Both my Mom and gay Aunt, RIP, would have something to say about that. My Dad probably would agree but then he was UNION, and those are dirt today.

Ok, so somebody please tell the old woman when America stopped being great. In my book, it is better NOW than when I was growing up for so, so, many people, other than WHITE MEN.
The 1940s into the 1950s seems to be about the time things starting changing for the worse.

Alot of people do not get that its NOT any one president or administrations fault, presidents come and go every 4-8 years, they are always changing, same thing with the house and senate, voting and elections bring change...Its the GOVt ITSELF, that is the problem, whether you call that the man behind the curtain, the deep state, shadow govt, etc.

The thing that really made me sit up and take notice was in 2012, when Govt cracked down on prescription drugs/opioids...this was during Obamas term!!?? Since when do Democrats like new drug laws? LOL Besides that, werent the big pharma companies paid up to the right people at that time or what? LOL
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:04 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,674,856 times
Reputation: 14050
American IS great...in terms of opportunity, but as with children, when people are given opportunity without constraints many of them make the wrong decisions.

We also fail to learn from our mistakes...a lot of the time...and tend to repeat, repeat, repeat.

I think we DO need to consider reparations...and before anyone gets on my case, this includes everything....like the Bundys and the other cattle ranchers and the illiterate masses in the Appalacians whose birthright wealth was stolen by Wall Street and London and they were left with nothing...or worse.

We need to work toward the founding principles even if some consider that radical....

General Welfare
Happiness of the People

These are the very foundations of everything that follows. Yet it seems as if we forget them and allow any behavior which is "legal" at the time and never make good on it. This continues to this day as the Chinese have bought up a lot of WV and other places to extract minerals and other materials.

This country should not be for sale. Maybe for a responsible lease...but not for sale to the highest bidding corporation that pays off the politicians.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:05 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,674,856 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantNJ View Post
Before everyone start arguing about this, what does OP mean by the statement that US is "great". What does being a Great country entail?


If this means having the biggest military then I would agree. If this means having the smallest National Debt and no Budget deficit then definitely no. If being "Great" means eradication of poverty and great standard of living for every citizen then the US is not "Great". It is average to below average. So what are we talking about here?
They are probably talking about something to beat others over the head with and use for campaign signage.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Southern California
29,266 posts, read 16,753,924 times
Reputation: 18909
America was great when I was born in 1938 and it is now in 2018 and I'm 80. I always resented the "H" out of this current president on this position and all those who fell for his rhetoric.

I think those who find so many faults, move to another country. Please.
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