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One of my favorite dogs was daisy, a friends boxer. Boxers dont have a friendly face, and every time I walked past his house, daisy would bark in a very enthusiastic manner. But daisy didnt want to attack. Daisy would not stop barking unless I walked up to her and started petting and playing with her.
Because for the most part pets love their owners unconditionally where other people see the flaws in each other.
So it’s easier to accept one’s own flaws, not address them, and bask in the dependent affection of a dumb animal? Calling it “unconditional love”. Doesn’t sound like a good or healthy approach to human life. In fact, it sounds like a form of escapism.
I think a better approach is to treat pets as an embellishment rather than a refuge.
I wasn't really an animal person until I got a dog; it's hard to explain if you don't have a pet but essentially, my dog is always happy - it doesn't matter if his day or mine was rough, at the end of the day all he wants to sit on the couch with his head in my lap and watch TV; that's it. Simple pleasures (a walk in the park, spending some time, a treat, playing fetch) bring my dog so much happiness; there's no materialism or selfishness, he just wants to be around us and is happy and content with that. Pretty simple.
I don't dislike humans, but I think we could learn a lot from animals about the simplicity of being happy with the presence of loved ones around us without ulterior motivations.
So it’s easier to accept one’s own flaws, not address them, and bask in the dependent affection of a dumb animal? Calling it “unconditional love”. Doesn’t sound like a good or healthy approach to human life. In fact, it sounds like a form of escapism.
I think a better approach is to treat pets as an embellishment rather than a refuge.
I dont see anything wrong with wanting to live in peace and harmony instead of conflict and judgement. A large number of us spend our day in a work environment where we deal with co-workers, bosses, clients, expectations, demands, stress, hostility, drama, judgement. We are scrutinized on what we eat, what we wear, who we associate with, what we drive, where we live, what we say, our religion, politics, etc.
So yes its nice to be in the company of a creature that does not care about any of that, they are just happy to see you, be with you. All you have to do is pet them, rub their belly, talk to them, sit with them.
There has been plenty research showing pets reduce stress and anxiety by actually reducing cortisol levels.
Im not sure why you seem to be opposed to those who seek to reduce stress and improve their overall mental and emotional health. Bonding with a pet beats the heck out of alcohol or drugs which many rely on to escape the harshness of the daily grind.
I dont see anything wrong with wanting to live in peace and harmony instead of conflict and judgement. A large number of us spend our day in a work environment where we deal with co-workers, bosses, clients, expectations, demands, stress, hostility, drama, judgement. We are scrutinized on what we eat, what we wear, who we associate with, what we drive, where we live, what we say, our religion, politics, etc.
So yes its nice to be in the company of a creature that does not care about any of that, they are just happy to see you, be with you. All you have to do is pet them, rub their belly, talk to them, sit with them.
There has been plenty research showing pets reduce stress and anxiety by actually reducing cortisol levels.
Im not sure why you seem to be opposed to those who seek to reduce stress and improve their overall mental and emotional health. Bonding with a pet beats the heck out of alcohol or drugs which many rely on to escape the harshness of the daily grind.
I am totally in favor of pet ownership. And I am a pet owner. I am just referring to people who put animals in the same league as people and over-identify with their pets to the exclusion of real human relationships. In that case, it’s no longer enjoying a pet, it’s escaping from life.
Or, for example, we have bat-**** crazy ethical vegans trying to stop us from enjoying meat products.
There is animal enjoyment, which is good, and then there is insanity. I’m just identifying the lines that shouldn’t be crossed.
I am totally in favor of pet ownership. And I am a pet owner. I am just referring to people who put animals in the same league as people and over-identify with their pets to the exclusion of real human relationships. In that case, it’s no longer enjoying a pet, it’s escaping from life.
Or, for example, we have bat-**** crazy ethical vegans trying to stop us from enjoying meat products.
There is animal enjoyment, which is good, and then there is insanity. I’m just identifying the lines that shouldn’t be crossed.
The PETA people don't even think we should have pets. They've got that "shelter" in VA that is nothing but a slaughterhouse.
I do think about the meat industry sometimes. Like, whether the practices in the mass production are healthy to us, and sustainable, and humane. I wish we could have more bison and less European domestic cattle for human consumption in the US. Bison are built to live here, and their meat is better for us. I think. But I do acknowledge that I am no expert. And while it isn't the main staple of my diet, I don't intend to stop eating meat.
But that kinda goes back to a question of what exactly we are talking about here? People who think that any/all animals are more important than any/all humans (or they like them better or something?) People who like their particular pets better than they like "most people?" I mean to me, that's pretty simple. That's just someone who doesn't really have a lot of positive human connections. And that is a LOT of people. Obviously we enjoy and care about our pets. Obviously if you don't actually like most people, and find human interaction more stressful than not, then you like your pet more than you like a lot of humans. Not everyone is a gregarious extrovert who really digs other people and interacting with them. Hell, some people work with unpleasant humans all day (hello, retail) and when they finally get to go home and relax, it's a huge relief to just be with their pets. And perhaps their own loved ones, if they have a family at home.
I think it's pretty reasonable and normal. I also think it's entirely reasonable to treat a pet like a part of the family, but I think in my case, it is more accurate to say that my cat is part of the landscape of my home and why I enjoy spending time there. He is part of what makes it a welcoming place for me to exist. Why wouldn't I love him for that? I can think of hundreds of people that I don't ever want to let into my house.
The PETA people don't even think we should have pets. They've got that "shelter" in VA that is nothing but a slaughterhouse.
I do think about the meat industry sometimes. Like, whether the practices in the mass production are healthy to us, and sustainable, and humane. I wish we could have more bison and less European domestic cattle for human consumption in the US. Bison are built to live here, and their meat is better for us. I think. But I do acknowledge that I am no expert. And while it isn't the main staple of my diet, I don't intend to stop eating meat.
But that kinda goes back to a question of what exactly we are talking about here? People who think that any/all animals are more important than any/all humans (or they like them better or something?) People who like their particular pets better than they like "most people?" I mean to me, that's pretty simple. That's just someone who doesn't really have a lot of positive human connections. And that is a LOT of people. Obviously we enjoy and care about our pets. Obviously if you don't actually like most people, and find human interaction more stressful than not, then you like your pet more than you like a lot of humans. Not everyone is a gregarious extrovert who really digs other people and interacting with them. Hell, some people work with unpleasant humans all day (hello, retail) and when they finally get to go home and relax, it's a huge relief to just be with their pets. And perhaps their own loved ones, if they have a family at home.
I think it's pretty reasonable and normal. I also think it's entirely reasonable to treat a pet like a part of the family, but I think in my case, it is more accurate to say that my cat is part of the landscape of my home and why I enjoy spending time there. He is part of what makes it a welcoming place for me to exist. Why wouldn't I love him for that? I can think of hundreds of people that I don't ever want to let into my house.
No argument. You have a balanced view and are not over-identifying. And I too would prefer less cruelty in the factory farming, and would pay more for products made with attention to avoiding cruelty. But, eating animals is moral, ethical, rational, tasty, and good, and I have no plans to stop it. And I love my pets, and enjoy my pets, but within rational limits. They are still pets, not people. And the affection they show me is sublimely pleasurable, but let’s not be stupid, it’s not LOVE. Animals are not capable of a complex emotion like love. That is only available to rational animals, aka humans. I realize many people want to call it love, because they want to be loved, but it ain’t love and will never be love.
I am totally in favor of pet ownership. And I am a pet owner. I am just referring to people who put animals in the same league as people and over-identify with their pets to the exclusion of real human relationships. In that case, it’s no longer enjoying a pet, it’s escaping from life.
Or, for example, we have bat-**** crazy ethical vegans trying to stop us from enjoying meat products.
There is animal enjoyment, which is good, and then there is insanity. I’m just identifying the lines that shouldn’t be crossed.
Thank you for your clarification.
Yes I have seen/known some people that are over the top when it comes to pets.
No argument. You have a balanced view and are not over-identifying. And I too would prefer less cruelty in the factory farming, and would pay more for products made with attention to avoiding cruelty. But, eating animals is moral, ethical, rational, tasty, and good, and I have no plans to stop it. And I love my pets, and enjoy my pets, but within rational limits. They are still pets, not people. And the affection they show me is sublimely pleasurable, but let’s not be stupid, it’s not LOVE. Animals are not capable of a complex emotion like love. That is only available to rational animals, aka humans. I realize many people want to call it love, because they want to be loved, but it ain’t love and will never be love.
Well... I don't find love to be a terribly complex emotion. And I've felt it for many people, creatures, things, places, in many contexts... People don't all agree on what "love" means! What does it mean to you?
To me, love is...well, maybe a bit like cake? There are many flavors, but you sure know it when you feel/taste it...you might get more excited about some kinds, than others, but it's generally pretty good. The love I had for my sons when they were a few weeks old, isn't the same as the love I have for my sons now that they are 18 and 20. And that is not the same as the love I have for my Mom, Dad, friends, fiance, a few of my former lovers, or even my Ex Husband who is arguably one of the worst relationships of my life. Yet, I was by his side for 18 years, and I still do love him in a way. Rather like a cantankerous relative that you'd rather NOT have over for Thanksgiving dinner, but still...I truly wish him well. I'd be sad if harm befell him. I would step up if he were truly in need.
Some say that people like me, who are ready to drop the L-word at any moment, cheapen it. I don't believe that is true. I think that the love that a person can feel, is truly infinite and always precious, and the world is better with more of it to go around. No need to be stingy or formal about it.
And again...would you argue that a pet cannot feel fear?
If they can feel fear, then why can they not feel love? Why is love so much more complicated?
Ah, but I did once work with a middle aged cat lady, who attempted to argue to me that she should be able to claim her cats as dependents on her taxes, because they were "like her children." I wanted to show her what kind of costs I was paying for diapers and child care, because my kids were little then... But hey, she was more than a bit loopy anyways.
Ah, but I did once work with a middle aged cat lady, who attempted to argue to me that she should be able to claim her cats as dependents on her taxes, because they were "like her children." I wanted to show her what kind of costs I was paying for diapers and child care, because my kids were little then... But hey, she was more than a bit loopy anyways.
Well I can kind of relate to her. Not that they are like children, although I often tell people having 6 dogs is like working in a day care, but that they can be expensive.
I am having to put diapers on my geriatric Staffordshire. I also had a pitt for 10 years with ectopic urethra requiring diapers, blankies and regular trips to the vet. I go through 50lbs of dog food a week, flea/tick meds, supplements, other minor issues.
My boss, bless his heart, sends his two to doggie day care during the day. Apparently it is a growing business.
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I wanted to show her what kind of costs I was paying for diapers and child care, because my kids were little then... But hey, she was more than a bit loopy anyways.
