Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
One thing that Biden has going for him is that no one has a clue what he is trying to say. Therefore, it's impossible to prove he was wrong about what he said.
Are you kidding? Have you heard Trump speak? Everything is so "Tremendous" or "So great"!
It's mostly liberal boomers who hate the NRA, younger liberals tend to be indifferent about guns or even flat out in favor of gun rights.
All the kids who went through the trauma of school shootings and the millions more who had to endure "active shooter" drills multiple times each year are either already voting or approaching voting age.
All the kids who went through the trauma of school shootings and the millions more who had to endure "active shooter" drills multiple times each year are either already voting or approaching voting age.
All the kids who went through the trauma of school shootings and the millions more who had to endure "active shooter" drills multiple times each year are either already voting or approaching voting age.
They send out questionnaires which are rather "heavy handed". The first one is they state if you do NOT return the questionnaire to them, they'll just assume you hate guns and hate America (OK, the former was there, but the latter was implied). The various questions are worded no better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miquel_westano
This proves you have no idea what the 2nd Amendment is about. It was put in place to keep people from being oppressed by their government. It was an amendment, like the others, put in to control the ability of the government to turn tyrannical and oppressive. The 2nd Amendment has zero to do with hunting, target shooting or any other recreational use of arms.
This may have worked in the past, like Colonial America. Nowadays, if your local police, SWAT, if the US military sends forces after you, your typical American thinks he can fend them off with a hunting rifle.
History hasn't shown this to be true either. During WWII, when Japanese Americans in California were put into internment camps, where were the gun owners to defend them? It was bullocks because the Japanese Americans in Hawaii did NOT go through the same thing. They should've sent them to interment camps as well, but they were deemed necessary for their local economy. The US government also later apologized for Japanese Americans' in CA.
I've asked a few gun owners (they too are pro-gun, and donate to the NRA) about this, and their response was they didn't need to worry about cops coming after them because "it'd be an unlawful order". LOL.. that's not how government oppression works.
Last but not least, your comment about "clean living" doesn't apply to everyone. Things like "driving while black" is still an issue. Telling those demographic of folks that "you don't need to worry about police" is like telling gun owners "you really do not need to own a gun"
I'm in a Red State, and right now I'm embarrassed to say I voted for Trump! Won't make the same mistake twice. And it's not just me. Many here feel the same! I'm mean seriously, he says stupid stuff and then backtracks because an advisor tells him what he said is not accurate!
Just an FYI...I'm not a fan of Biden either.
He's not a good speechifier, he's got attention deficit disorder or something, and jumps from one topic to another rather erratically.... but he's also kind of a genius at manipulating people to cut deals.
I think the secret to understanding Trump is not to take his words literally, but to read between the lines. He occasionally says something coherent. He's at his best when he's in conversation, not when he's making a speech.
Watch the daily press conferences - he makes this terrible, cringe-y speech, then when reporters are asking questions, he's quite on point and informative.
He baits the opposition with extreme or wacky statements, causes them to react emotionally, yet in reality he pushes reasonable policies and gets results. It leaves the opposition looking kind of childish and ineffectual. I swear he does it on purpose.
I'm a Republican in a very Blue state (home of Sen. Pocahontas) and I'll vote for him again. In fact I'd vote for him a third time if he ran. He gets stuff done, somehow, and drives the opposition crazy while he's doing it.
And there are a lot of Democrats and independents I know who secretly agree with me, but are reluctant to admit it around here, out of fear of losing their jobs and friends. Which happens.
Here's why... You, Mister Private Gun Owner, are not going to defend yourself or your community against tyranny by the US Government. It might make you feel well endowed to strut about saying that you are upholding those principles with your personal arsenal, but how well did that serve them in Waco? If the might of the US military is ever aimed at you, all you can do is die a martyr, no matter how many guns you've collected. And I am sure you're not dumb enough to think otherwise.
Why are libs always so patronizing and insulting? "Well endowed"? "Mr. Private Gun Owner"? "Strut around"? Can't libs ever debate without juvenile insults?
Well here we go, first what you feel I can or can't do is meaningless to me. If I believe my gun will protect me from a tyrannical government, that's good enough. I don't care if you believe it or not. You don't? Don't buy a gun. That works for me. I wont try to get you to, and wont use mine to protect you. But, leave me and my constitutional rights alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
As for home defense? I've lived in homes--snipped the anecdotal BS.
I don't care what happened in your life, it has zero effect on mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
So you'll pardon me if I have personal discomforts around guns, and have found it more effective to simply apply preventative degrees of situational awareness and non-ostentatious living habits, to not tempt break-ins or muggings. My application of common sense life habits has done a better job of keeping me safe thus far, than having guns around has.
Don't care what you are comfortable with. Again it has zero to do with me and my right to bear arms. I won't bore you with personal stories, because they have nothing to do with you, but I don't care about yours either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
But I'm not actually out to take people's guns. I'm not a gun control activist. Not only do I recognize that it is a sacred part of American national identity and culture, going back to the founding of our country, just as a point of principle...but I recognize too that while guns can have sometimes questionable utility in defending oneself against tyranny and the such, if you live in the country you damn well might have to defend yourself from troublesome and dangerous wildlife. The fact that they were there first hardly matters when it's you or your kid in the crosshairs of a bear, mountain lion, or angry moose. I've heard sensible (if not 100% applicable or definitive) arguments to counter every other point in favor of gun ownership, just speaking to a place of logic and debate. But THAT one, I have even used to shut down rabidly anti-gun liberals.
If you do not support the 2nd Amendment as written, then you oppose it. There are only two sides to the gun debate. Either infringement or not. There is no mountain lion clause, no bear exemption and no moose addendum's. The 2nd Amendment is clear, and being eroded every day by fence sitters who want to argue hunting, target shooting or the fact they had muskets then instead of Glocks and AR-15's. They also had feather quill pens and ink wells. Does the 1st Amendment now become outdated because the founding fathers did't have internet and keyboards? I'd argue the propaganda of government controlled newsprint has killed many times that of any privately owned firearms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
All in all, I am personally about the idea of individuals having the liberty to go about their own lives as they see fit.
Obviously not. I see fit to arm myself, and not with a bear gun. I see fit to be the barrier to home invasion and if necessary to try to stand up to tyranny by joining a state militia. I see fit to live my life enjoying the rights many of our past American patriots died to protect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
So we get this bullcrap "Team Sports" mindset about it all, rather than acting like rational and decent people to one another.
Well it took a while, but at least we agree on that.
I’m a Texan and considered myself conservative, I own guns, many guns and I’m well off financially. I live in a nice house in a conservative community and pay high property taxes. Then one day my party was hijacked by people I have nothing in common with. I still conservative and vote for the people that are also but not the over the top crazy's, so I’m now more open-minded.
Are you kidding? Have you heard Trump speak? Everything is so "Tremendous" or "So great"!
Trump can speak like a normal person in private, he has problems finding the correct one or two-syllable words that his core can understand. That’s my funny for today.
Why are libs always so patronizing and insulting? "Well endowed"? "Mr. Private Gun Owner"? "Strut around"? Can't libs ever debate without juvenile insults?
Well here we go, first what you feel I can or can't do is meaningless to me. If I believe my gun will protect me from a tyrannical government, that's good enough. I don't care if you believe it or not. You don't? Don't buy a gun. That works for me. I wont try to get you to, and wont use mine to protect you. But, leave me and my constitutional rights alone.
I don't care what happened in your life, it has zero effect on mine.
Don't care what you are comfortable with. Again it has zero to do with me and my right to bear arms. I won't bore you with personal stories, because they have nothing to do with you, but I don't care about yours either.
If you do not support the 2nd Amendment as written, then you oppose it. There are only two sides to the gun debate. Either infringement or not. There is no mountain lion clause, no bear exemption and no moose addendum's. The 2nd Amendment is clear, and being eroded every day by fence sitters who want to argue hunting, target shooting or the fact they had muskets then instead of Glocks and AR-15's. They also had feather quill pens and ink wells. Does the 1st Amendment now become outdated because the founding fathers did't have internet and keyboards? I'd argue the propaganda of government controlled newsprint has killed many times that of any privately owned firearms.
Obviously not. I see fit to arm myself, and not with a bear gun. I see fit to be the barrier to home invasion and if necessary to try to stand up to tyranny by joining a state militia. I see fit to live my life enjoying the rights many of our past American patriots died to protect.
Well it took a while, but at least we agree on that.
Good god. Dude, explain to me, please, how your gun ownership helps you in any way to resist a tyrannical government. I want to know. What do you imagine that would look like?
And in fact it does not matter, because as I've tried to say repeatedly I don't actually take any particular issue with you or anyone having a gun for whatever reason matters to them. I don't have PERSONAL comfort with them, that opinion only applies to what I do in my own house. You think I would actually need, want, or ask you to defend me with your gun? Funny how my abusive ex also says I will regret divorcing him because I'll be sorry when I don't have his protection "when the balloon goes up." That's why these sentiments sound like grandstanding to me. "I won't protect you"...who the hell asked you to?
I sure didn't.
But I'm not in the business of arguing that your guns ought to be taken from you either. I don't care why you have them. It's none of my business.
My point with the bears and moose argument is that anti-gun liberals can argue all day about the dubious practicality and utility of guns for home defense, whether against the government or intruders. But it's a lot harder for THEM to argue against rural people having a need for a gun.
It is a matter of appealing in argument (not even with you or me, but conversations I've had with other people) to the "tolerance for diversity" mindset that MUST acknowledge when someone else's lifestyle necessitates different priorities. And it speaks DIRECTLY to the subject of this thread, about the differences that people have, who live in urban versus rural environments. It only makes sense that people have different priorities and needs and mindsets, hence, different politics!
The 2nd Amendment is not being "eroded" by "fence sitters" like myself who don't leap up to support gun rights and gun ownership, it is "eroded" in terms of you bearing arms for its original stated reason, to oppose tyranny, by the basic FACT that government enforcers at any level from the local cops to the US Military have more than enough resources to easily destroy you and your entire grid square. Tyranny has grown to the point that your gun ownership is the buzzing of flies to Vigo. When one weighs an argument such as free and unrestrained gun ownership, and considers the pros and the cons, if your biggest "pro" is resisting tyranny but it's been reduced to futility by the power of the tyrants...it gets to a point where it fails to stand on its own anymore. None of that means that I think you shouldn't have the right to have guns. Because no matter what I think or how I feel about it, this is one area where I align more conservatively, on the side of individual liberties. At the end of the day, that is the only justification I really need.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Prove it
