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Speaking of Hillary Clinton, did you vote for her? Did your friends vote for her? Any Bernie Bros withhold their votes in protest? In other words, did you or they help get Trump elected?
Yes I voted for her, and most of my friends did. Though a little further out there are Bernie Bros I know that didn't bother voting. Personally, while I think Bernie has some good ideas, he is all talk and no action. And that is why he has never received any of my votes.
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Why do you want Joe Biden to specifically select a black woman? You didn't even say "a woman of color, like the talented and well-qualified Tammy Duckworth, or a Latina, or a lesbian. You played the black woman card. I appreciate your honesty, but isn't it because you are yourself a black woman?
There are a few reasons I think Biden should pick a black woman in this moment. One, black women have consistently been firm democratic supporters and voters for a long time and are taken for granted by the democrats. Two, this is obviously the moment to make sure the democrats are going to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. In American culture, black people have done the work on civil rights, women's suffrage, and found that other groups have capitalized on the work and we are told - wait, your turn is coming. And that turn never shows up. So right now it is time to end that waiting. Our number is not coming up unless we demand it.
I also think Kamala Harris is very qualified for the role, but the old playbook. I also think Condi Rice is, and
I think as we can see, with how affirmative action has played out in reality, where white women have received the most benefits, waiting around isn't really going to work. I have no issues supporting my fellow women of color and I wan to see a diverse slate of representatives at every level of government. Women are over half out population and we are not well represented. But not every woman can represent me. No shade to lesbians - but their struggle isn't remotely the same as an underrepresented black or brown minority group.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you think it would be amazing for someone like Stacey Abrams to be picked for her potential rather than past hard work, experience, education and accomplishments, it makes me think you, too, must either be very young and inexperienced or else you have had a hard time getting your own foot in the door because you don't have the qualifications and experience required for whatever position you hope to get and you wish people would just reward you based on your "potential." I am sorry, but that's not a very mature attitude.
I am in my early 40s, I work in tech, I see plenty of people, generally male and white, who are absolutely chosen for potential and experience every day. It is a real and validated by data in the workforce, and it has happened in my own career as well. Sadly women still get pushback for asking for what we want and negotiating and having high aspirations. Obama got the nomination because of potential, not a ton of experience. Hilary Clinton has way more experience.
I also think Stacy Abrams represents a new template for democratic leadership. The youngsters are over it on the old playbook and the old ways. They don't want someone from the "old guard." Harris represents the old guard for sure, so she couldn't get the votes of young people. And her prosecutor background is a liability for progressives.
I am also a firm believer that boomers need to get out of the way and let the next generation into politics. Abrams energizes the young people, and Biden needs young people to vote for him. The Bernie Bros I know seem to be supportive of Abrams, which makes her a savvy pick to get younger people to show up.
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Stacey Abrams is well-spoken, but is deeply flawed as a candidate and, frankly, as a person. She reminds me in many ways of Donald Trump, both out for their own personal glorification, and exceedingly condescending and conceited. If she's on the ticket, I predict that there will be a huge backlash by most of the Democrats who will actually go out and vote.
I don't agree with you here, I think her desire to be on the national stage is rooted in a desire to actually be a politician, not for personal recognition. She wants to improve her communities (and the country) and it motivated by that. Trump is motivated by money and getting a seat at the popular kids table. But because of the "patriarchy" we don't really like women who are aggressive and boldly say and go after what they want. No one was tripping out when Mayor Pete showed up with no experience wanting to be president. They were like "sure, he's a smart guy, let's go for it!" And this is why it has been hard for women candidates to run, we have some weird expectations where you need to be nice and accommodating, and dress nicely, and all this other BS that isn't really relevant for the job.
Val Demings may be qualified, but I don't want her chosen because I am not a fan of lifetime police officers, esp a long-time Chief of Police, and would not want one in a position to be President and from what I have read, most blacks aren't thrilled with that, either. She seems to be too authoritarian and I don't see her playing second fiddle to anyone. She's been in charge far too long for that. Plus, I'm sure there will be a number of police brutality cases that will show up during her tenure, too. I already found something and posted it about her having her gun, etc. stolen and she didn't report it for at least a week. That's not a good sign. She always seems to wear dark police blue. Signaling?
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I have voted for Kamala Harris more than once, including the last time that she ran for office. I do think she is qualified to be Vice President, but I prefer her in the Senate, where she is a great inquisitor. If she stays there long enough, she could be the female Mitch McConnell. I don't like the fact that her calling out Joe Biden in the debates is going to lead to sound bites to be used by Trump. She and Biden may not actually get along that well, either, otherwise how could she attack him like that? Maybe Harris will be selected for the Supreme Court, although as far as I recall, the people nominated for the Supreme Court have sat on district court benches, which she has not. So I don't know whether she has a path for the much better position of Supreme Court, where she can do much more than she can as Vice President. It's a lifetime position.
I think her on the court would be really interesting. I think she is motivated to be a lifelong politician, and I support that, even though I don't always agree with her. She is motivated by and rooted in public service, and I can always support someone who has that mindset, no matter which party they represent.
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It troubles me, though, that there is this strong push by black activist women for the Vice President to be a black woman. Maybe you have seen that "YOU OWE US!" video by Sunny Hostin and her friends? Do you watch The View and Sunny's behavior? I think the potential is there for worse race relations, not better. I have always been a staunch Democrat, and I always vote, yet it has already made me very, very angry that Amy Klobuchar was actually railroaded and lied about and I know that I am not alone in my disappointment at the behavior of Sunny et al. There is going to be backlash.
I haven't watched the View in like 20 years! I have no clue who that is.
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Let's face it, Obama (for whom I twice voted) is what led us to Trump and his supporters. If we could go back in time, Obama should have supported Hillary in 2008 (could even have been her Veep) as she would have beaten McCain/Palin easily and then Obama in 2012 and 2016 or 2016 and 2020 and no Trump at all.
Anyway, some things to think about.
I agree and disagree about Obama leading us to Trump. He did, yes, but not because of any of his actions. If anything has become abundantly clear in today's climate, race relations (at the societal level, not the individual one) are totally broken. There is still a mindset for many people in this country that black people should be happy with scraps. And those scraps represent true equality for black people. Obama's presidency caused backlash because of racism, there are many people in this country that are unhappy with being represented by a black family.
And separately, there is still a budding class war that hasn't happened yet, because the working class people of all colors can't find a way to come together to work on income inequality, because working class white people think "white" interests are more important than "class" interests. I mean looking at the Obamacare debacle (where a bunch of people who benefit from it, don't even know that is what they are taking advantage of). Somehow the republicans have managed to convince people not to vote on social programs that help them, because they are afraid of so-called freeloading minorities and illegals. It is very silly.
And even more unfortunately, Republican have abandoned their so-called "small government" ideals, for overregulation on sexual identity, gender identity, reproductive rights, and women's right to choose. And also lots of corporate welfare programs, while cutting social safety nets. Republicans have really lost their way since the Tea Party era, and their platform has lost all rhyme or reason besides block anything the democrats do. And politicians on both sides can no longer compromise across party lines and work in the best interest of their constituents.
I am hoping that we are about to launch into a new era where public servants are actually motivated by serving the public and not filling their pocketbooks and planning for their post political career writing books, on the speaking circuit, and as a lobbyist.
There particular riots had plenty of White Antifa types involved, so there are some Whites that share some blame. And this is the thing. Most of the individuals killed by Black people are themselves Black. Black men die at higher rates than anyone else and have a lower life expectancy. It's mostly Blacks who suffer the most, so that "Blacks are a scourge on society" rant won't work here.
And as for women having entitlements and taking photos of themselves, this is how I see it. If you don't like it, this is the best I can offer you. You (you personally) shouldn't look at any said person's Instagram photos.
By the way, you still haven't answered my other post.
So you ignore it and think it is ok to kill 6 times more as long as most of the victims are black?
All lives should matter.
And the stats do show blacks are more likely to kill a white than the other way around. But media makes you think blacks have to fear whites. Instead of the other way around.
And instead of themselves. Because that is considered an acceptable part of their culture.
If anyone was really concerned about blacks lives. Why ignore what kills them 10 times more.
Also my response to other post got deleted against rules.
But easy for you to look up FBI stats and do the math for the proof.
Last edited by Steve19605; 06-20-2020 at 01:45 PM..
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So you ignore it and think it is ok to kill 6 times more as long as most of the victims are black?
All lives should matter.
And the stats do show blacks are more likely to kill a white than the other way around. But media makes you think blacks have to fear whites. Instead of the other way around.
And instead of themselves. Because that is considered an acceptable part of their culture.
If anyone was really concerned about blacks lives. Why ignore what kills them 10 times more.
Also my response to other post got deleted against rules.
But easy for you to look up FBI stats and do the math for the proof.
I never said it was okay. I'm saying that when you add up who dies the most at the hands of Black people, it's Black people. Black people are the vast majority of victims when it comes to Black people committing murder. It's not okay to commit murder period. I'm not advocating murdering anyone. However, if you want to know who is in the most danger at the hands of Black thugs, it's other Black people. Of course I can tell you don't care. We're just "takers" in your book.
And something else. When Black people kill other people, they go to prison for the rest of their lives. In many cases, they get the death penalty. And something else: I don't live in the ghetto. I am concerned about Black on Black murder, but where I live, it isn't something I have to deal with. Most of the Black people I deal with every day are middle class and working people. They aren't thugs, and I don't hang out in the ghetto. On the flip side, I do worry more about police brutality for this reason: We need police, but not a police state. More is expected from police officers. And when the chances of a police officer getting away with murder is higher than that of a civilian committing murder, that is a problem.
I know what the FBI statistics say. You also said that the majority of Blacks were criminals. Statistics show otherwise. Statistics show that the majority of Blacks don't commit crime.
Do you have anything better to do than complain about Black people? What do you expect to accomplish? The segment of the Black population committing the lion's share of the crime (the underclass) doesn't care and has nothing to lose. Decent, hardworking Black people aren't the ones involved in crime. If you're concerned about Blacks who commit crimes, why not talk to the persons who actually commit crimes?
There are a few reasons I think Biden should pick a black woman in this moment. .....
Jade, you make it very difficult for me to respond to you when you took my words and made them appear to be your words. Please be very careful when you use quotes, then go back and check to see if you need to edit your post to ensure that you don't let stand something which is inaccurate.
I wrote:
"Val Demings may be qualified, but I don't want her chosen because I am not a fan of lifetime police officers, esp a long-time Chief of Police, and would not want one in a position to be President and from what I have read, most blacks aren't thrilled with that, either. She seems to be too authoritarian and I don't see her playing second fiddle to anyone. She's been in charge far too long for that. Plus, I'm sure there will be a number of police brutality cases that will show up during her tenure, too. I already found something and posted it about her having her gun, etc. stolen and she didn't report it for at least a week. That's not a good sign. She always seems to wear dark police blue. Signaling?"
Yet, if you look at your long reply to me, you make the section about Val Demings appear to be your words, and then you don't actually discuss Val Demings at all.
So, please address what I wrote about Val Demings and tell me how you would view Demings' selection by Biden as VP running mate.
Jade, you make it very difficult for me to respond to you when you took my words and made them appear to be your words. Please be very careful when you use quotes, then go back and check to see if you need to edit your post to ensure that you don't let stand something which is inaccurate.
I wrote:
"Val Demings may be qualified, but I don't want her chosen because I am not a fan of lifetime police officers, esp a long-time Chief of Police, and would not want one in a position to be President and from what I have read, most blacks aren't thrilled with that, either. She seems to be too authoritarian and I don't see her playing second fiddle to anyone. She's been in charge far too long for that. Plus, I'm sure there will be a number of police brutality cases that will show up during her tenure, too. I already found something and posted it about her having her gun, etc. stolen and she didn't report it for at least a week. That's not a good sign. She always seems to wear dark police blue. Signaling?"
Yet, if you look at your long reply to me, you make the section about Val Demings appear to be your words, and then you don't actually discuss Val Demings at all.
So, please address what I wrote about Val Demings and tell me how you would view Demings' selection by Biden as VP running mate.
In terms of Demings isn't my favorite by far, I think she is a dark horse candidate - that is aimed at more conservative democrats and moderate republicans, and older people. Definitely not for the Bernie Bros.
Biden needs to decide what camp he wasn't to align with, and his VP pick will signal that. For me, I think there are both qualified and high potential candidates to choose from, and that is more important.
To be frank, at this juncture, I am on team anyone but Trump. I think 2024 or 2028 presidential election will be the one that is the real game changer. The only goal for me, in 2020 is to get rid of Trump. And I hope that before 2024 the Democrats figure out to have a united front, and embrace the younger generation.
The question is, why wasn't his phone ringing off the hook before? That's the problem, when things continue with the "old way" and talented people get ignored, everyone misses out!
But the old way was getting better. Maybe not fast enough, but people were being more inclusive, and voluntarily. It wasn't just in terms of race, gender etc. When I graduated, the firm was looking for better talent pools. Like many top accounting firms at the time, the dominating ethnic group at the top was White and Jewish, who themselves had had to break into a WASP profession with their own firms and eventually....largely won. While I was never part of the inner circle, the overlapping personal interests certainly helped the top partners. If I'm a the right temple where most people overachieve, it does become easier to be in the right place at the right time. There's no overt discrimination in that, it just happens.
Still, the problem with the top recruiting similars is that the competition is doing the same, even if unknowingly. As you touch on, everyone misses out on undiscovered talent sources. However, nobody starts at the top. In my opening class we had a partner relative who'd bombed elsewhere his first year (still worthless in his 2nd go), we had a late career restart from a gal who divorced and changed paths entirely (she did fine), there were two experienced chartered (foreign) accountants (one from Australia, one from Nigeria), as well as some on green card sponsorships, they tried a finance major (no good as an accountant, but great for a bank lending group) and the majority of us were a smorgasbord of the traditional local university programs. They were trying, because they didn't know. The senior partners were mostly all older Jewish men, reflective of both preferences of 20 years before that as well as how firms saw themselves. At the time, ladies were winning partnerships at just under the rate of men as well as non Jewish men, reflective of the the hiring preferences of 10 years prior. Yet my starting class, while it had representatives of every group save for Hispanic, was decidedly Whiter than the University I attended....BUT it looked a lot like my major classes. Over time, that changed, and it was easy enough to see in starting classes.
The emphasis was very much in diversity in, frankly, the truer sense of the word. Where can we get quality workers that will do well? How can we put together the best team? What they started doing as well was stopping the older partners from attending the job fairs. Let the newer balanced group do it. I recall my first #1. Dude was fantastic on paper, had the accounting and MIS systems with programming ability, and I couldn't figure out why he hadn't been snapped up yet. I spotted him before he spotted me and I knew why. He was awkward looking. White, 6 foot 3, 60-80 lbs overweight with thin hair even in his early 20s. When you spoke, he tilted his head at an angle to minimize the fact that he had a crazy eye. As I watched him bounce from booth to booth, he was quickly passed along to reference materials and he was getting nowhere. One actually shrieked with shock when his eye twitched and she literally apologized and excused herself to the ladies room. That's when I went in. Guy was tired. I greeted, the eye twitched and I made no motion, like it wasn't there, looking straight at his face, which nobody was doing. He seemed confused and eventually he relaxed and told me about his work. He was better than he was on paper. I'm sitting here talking to the frankly, the best prospect in the entire UofI system and nobody else even wants him. He's an unabashed computer geek that knew accounting and was hell bent on using systems to automate accounting tasks and audit steps. He's not the wine and dine money maker....but he knew his stuff and he had enough vision and sense to know where he wanted to go with it, yet with a humility that allowed him to really communicate when people listened.
I went back and said, he's my #1, you have to get him. The others were in shock. Regardless of race, tall, slender and attractive was big that year. Lead guy was like, dude, he'll never get placed on jobs, this is 100% you on the line. I'm like, I will take him on every one of mine and at some point you will all beg me to share him.
Today that man is basically the world's leading developer for audit software used at several of the world's largest public accounting firms. He works from home 95% of the time, where he doesn't have to constantly get the indignity of being limited by initial reactions. He will create presentations for new tools and applications, but if he goes, he will always teach someone else to give the presentation.
If he hadn't been awesome, I wouldn't have wasted my time, because the others in the group were not wrong. He did have trouble getting placed on solid gigs at first. His training time mostly came from me because people didn't want to train him because he looked funny, but he was easy to train and he eventually passed me. Those that made the effort were well rewarded.
He was a hard guy to get to go out for fun, but once in awhile he would go for drinks with me. Someone once asked why he didn't get his eye fixed. He said, there's nothing wrong with my eyes, I see just fine. If you see something you don't like, then the problem is with your eyes. Those were fighting words, but did I mention he's big? It took me awhile to realize that his eyes were part of him, had certainly had an impact on his life, and he was proud of who he was.
Now it's fair to say, I was no better. I was moneyballing in the Oakland A's sense. I was slow to understand, but with patience we grew to become very close friends. People were horrible, but would give a chance if only because they realized how horrible they were in their initial approaches.
The path up may not be clear as to how it will happen, or when. I don't know all areas, but in the ones I've lived in there was an imperfect push for diversity because people saw the value of diverse workforces. That's healthy and wanted. However, divisive protests, as if only certain groups are affected risks backfiring into a tribalism environment. How horrible would it be for the gifted man above to finally receive accommodation he is worthy of only to have his efforts stymied by a company of tribal groups that will not work together, no matter the risk to the company.
In terms of Demings isn't my favorite by far, I think she is a dark horse candidate - that is aimed at more conservative democrats and moderate republicans, and older people. Definitely not for the Bernie Bros.
Biden needs to decide what camp he wasn't to align with, and his VP pick will signal that. For me, I think there are both qualified and high potential candidates to choose from, and that is more important.
To be frank, at this juncture, I am on team anyone but Trump. I think 2024 or 2028 presidential election will be the one that is the real game changer. The only goal for me, in 2020 is to get rid of Trump. And I hope that before 2024 the Democrats figure out to have a united front, and embrace the younger generation.
Until very recently I would have agreed with you that the primary goal in 2020 is to get rid of Trump. I detest everything about Donald Trump, the Trump Organization, and everything that surrounds it. His supporters, whether they are young or old, rich or poor, rural or urban, say and do the most hateful things. Their anti-mask ravings are so stupid. They buy into hoax theories. I want the long nightmare of Trump & Co. over.
I want Democrats in charge, because I trust Democrats to behave responsibly and to ensure the safety of the public with regards to COVID-19.
But I don't want to trade one nightmare for another, and I don't support the ongoing radical, angry protestors who are defacing or pulling down every venerable statue of white history they can find, inc Ulysses S. Grant, who was the Union General who defeated the Confederates. One young black woman on TV moaned that the protests were waning a few days ago, and she wants them to continue, and doesn't care at all about COVID-19.
Even though I believe that Black Lives Matter, and changes must be made, BLM cannot be the the main topic of 2020. We must first conquer the coronavirus, get a vaccine and then get it distributed and then get the country back to work, otherwise there won't be funds to do anything else we need to do. We can't split focus. It isn't fair that the elderly have to be shut away and isolated forever just in order to stay alive.
At Trump's rally in Tulsa today/tonight, The New York Times reported: "Mr. Trump described Mr. Biden as a "helpless puppet of the radical left.” He then said that Mr. Biden himself had never been a radical leftist, but claimed he was controlled by the fringes of his party."
I hope that Trump is lying again, and that Biden isn't being led around by the nose, pandering to black activists in order to realize his dream of becoming President, but only time will tell.
By the way, the oldest white Democratic females that I know are all feminists (as am I) and are considerably more progressive than you think. One good friend is very healthy at the age of 95 and she is politically engaged, far to the left of me, (I'm young enough to be her daughter. ) In fact, I would say the older the white Democratic females (at least in the SF Bay Area), the more left-leaning. A lot of them support Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.
Both of those candidates support issues that are more favorable to those who have not had privileges in the past. The biggest difference is that Bernie is not a capitalist, while Elizabeth Warren is.
Until very recently I would have agreed with you that the primary goal in 2020 is to get rid of Trump. I detest everything about Donald Trump, the Trump Organization, and everything that surrounds it. His supporters, whether they are young or old, rich or poor, rural or urban, say and do the most hateful things. Their anti-mask ravings are so stupid. They buy into hoax theories. I want the long nightmare of Trump & Co. over.
I want Democrats in charge, because I trust Democrats to behave responsibly and to ensure the safety of the public with regards to COVID-19.
Don't get me wrong I think that solving COVID is important, but Covid has reiterated that all of our existing broken systems mean that pandemic impact the black people a whole lot more than everyone else. And the combo of health insurance tied to employment, low wage service jobs, and limiting safety net programs leads to disproportionate impact. The low wage workers are at the front lines interacting with a lot of people with little pay and crappy insurance. And these workers are more likely to Black and Brown people of color.
And then once you get into the hospital - your treatment and outcomes are a whole lot worse. Not sure you saw this story, but there was a Black healthcare worker in Detroit who had COVIS symptoms and they denied her testing four times. She died. Most likely due to lack of treatment. So it is easy to see gambling with a deadly virus that can kill you are gamble with protesting and hoping things will change. The choice isn't easy.
The primary goal of the next presidency to to restore faith in our institutions and democratic processes. They have been blown up during Trump's reign, and we need to get that back on track. We need to make sure everyone has access to vote and votes aren't repressed. We need to make sure staying safe to limit your exposure to COVID isn't a death sentence for your family if your choices are having a roof over your head and food or no exposure.
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But I don't want to trade one nightmare for another, and I don't support the ongoing radical, angry protestors who are defacing or pulling down every venerable statue of white history they can find, inc Ulysses S. Grant, who was the Union General who defeated the Confederates. One young black woman on TV moaned that the protests were waning a few days ago, and she wants them to continue, and doesn't care at all about COVID-19.
I think there would be less animosity over the symbols if we actually told the full story of our history and people were aware. We also need to look at where they were placed and when. The Confederate statues showed up as a response to Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement. Not as monuments to history. These symbols represent the lack of equality of our country when placed in front of the symbols of government. What if they were placed in a "historical center" that covered the full history? The conversation about the symbols needs to evolve. But we can't say "this erases our history" when our history has purposely erased the history of non-white Americans.
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Even though I believe that Black Lives Matter, and changes must be made, BLM cannot be the the main topic of 2020. We must first conquer the coronavirus, get a vaccine and then get it distributed and then get the country back to work, otherwise there won't be funds to do anything else we need to do. We can't split focus. It isn't fair that the elderly have to be shut away and isolated forever just in order to stay alive.
I agree, but it does seem plenty of politicians were ready to sacrifice the elderly and the immuno-compromised to turn the wheels of capitalism again.
But in a few years when rights were rolled back, hate crimes increased - I think it is likely beyond time to address our "original sin," and work on healing the nation with an inclusive vision for our democratic republic. And let's be fair, the police reform agenda benefits everyone. Full economic participation for Black people benefits everyone. It is impossible for the country to meet its full potential if we can't make sure all the residents and citizens have an opportunity to thrive. And it is hard to thrive if your systems block some people from that opportunity.
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By the way, the oldest white Democratic females that I know are all feminists (as am I) and are considerably more progressive than you think. One good friend is very healthy at the age of 95 and she is politically engaged, far to the left of me, (I'm young enough to be her daughter. ) In fact, I would say the older the white Democratic females (at least in the SF Bay Area), the more left-leaning. A lot of them support Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.
Both of those candidates support issues that are more favorable to those who have not had privileges in the past. The biggest difference is that Bernie is not a capitalist, while Elizabeth Warren is.
I think that feminism hasn't really been a friend to inclusion. Somewhere, when speaking of feminism and intersectional feminism, I think this is the clearest example of why it hasn't worked for non-white women.
While white women were fighting to get into the workforce, non-white women were already working outside the home. And in a lot of cases their labor enabled white women to go to work (doing the domestic, child care, and other caretaking duties they left behind.). The struggles and challenges are not the same at all.
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