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We do not have a national police force, so saying it's too late for "our society in the US" is a red herring. Police forces can be reformed by individual cities, so the question is why hasn't anyone done it yet?
What is happening in Minneapolis where the city council has decided to abolish the police force? The council members have hired private personal security at taxpayer expense. Are they serious about reform?
What is happening in New York City where the mayor overnight abolished the 600-member plainclothes anti-crime squad, as well as the State having abolished cash bail for all but the most heinous crimes?
Both Minneapolis and NYC are invoking knee-jerk responses to violent protests, which is not how Europe handled police reform. City dwellers, mostly black and Hispanic people, in the US are suffering because of the sudden withdrawal of police from their communities.
In New York City in June 2020, 97% of gunshot victims were black/brown. So far this month (July 2020) 100% of people shot are black/brown. These are victims of criminals, not victims of police brutality. "Defund the Police" is a bumper sticker for high school kids to put on their lockers. It should not be a policy.
We do not have a national police force, so saying it's too late for "our society in the US" is a red herring. Police forces can be reformed by individual cities, so the question is why hasn't anyone done it yet?
What is happening in Minneapolis where the city council has decided to abolish the police force? The council members have hired private personal security at taxpayer expense. Are they serious about reform?
What is happening in New York City where the mayor overnight abolished the 600-member plainclothes anti-crime squad, as well as the State having abolished cash bail for all but the most heinous crimes?
Both Minneapolis and NYC are invoking knee-jerk responses to violent protests, which is not how Europe handled police reform. City dwellers, mostly black and Hispanic people, in the US are suffering because of the sudden withdrawal of police from their communities.
In New York City in June 2020, 97% of gunshot victims were black/brown. So far this month (July 2020) 100% of people shot are black/brown. These are victims of criminals, not victims of police brutality. "Defund the Police" is a bumper sticker for high school kids to put on their lockers. It should not be a policy.
It's what they asked for and delivered. That's why as Chris Rock claims "Black people can never have anything good."
And when a woman being stalked by a psycho calls 9-1-1, who's going to respond? A psychologist? Ridiculous.
Did you read the link? Protecting persons and property is the proper role of the police, especially in an emergency (it's not clear what kind of case you have in mind here). But there have been too many cases of mentally ill people who have been killed by police or incarcerated because they didn't get the treatment they needed. If a schizophenic is off his meds, there are (or should be) better ways of dealing with him than calling the police.
Are most stalkers even mentally ill, though? I doubt most would meet the legal definition of not being in control of their actions or unable to distinguish right from wrong. Stalkers who threaten their victims or invade their privacy merit a law enforcement/criminal justice system response. But maybe better education and support for working families would prevent some people from becoming stalkers in the first place.
[Edit: even if they are not legally insane, some stalkers would benefit from counseling, perhaps court-ordered.]
I don’t think this has been shared in this thread. Everyone is talking about violent crimes that could likely use an officer to support. Unfortunately police spend around 4% of their time on the stuff people are most worried about.
So why shouldn’t we take away that 90% of other stuff and let other people do it. That is absolutely a ridiculous misallocation of resources.
For example, officers are called in my neighborhood to handle homeless people. Here is the typical call. A homeless person is taking a nap in the park or on the sidewalk. The officer comes up and is like “are you ok?” The person is usually sleepy or sleeping off a hangover. Or just sitting in the shade doing nothing. Other times they are dehydrated. The only thing the officer can do is tell them to move, give them some water, call am ambulance or arrest them.
We all know they just need a place to go. But that isn’t an option. Waste of everyone’s time. And the cycle continues. The person moves to another block. Someone else calls. Rinse and repeat.
We need to send the right person who actually has a solution to the issue. And not very often is that solution an arrest.
I'm happy this thread has garnered so many replies. Thanks to all of you who have chimed in.
Anyway, thinking about this deeper, there's several things that right off the bat as a society would go a long way towards helping to reduce the tensions between police and communities:
One, we need to focus on how we can lower the amount of contact African-American and Hispanic communities have with the police on a day to day basis, and one of those ways would be to have speed and red light cameras replace traffic stops nationwide. No one should feel like they are "Driving While Black" and this would go a long way towards lowering the hostility between neighborhoods and police. We also need to re-evaluate the best way to deal with "Quality of Life" offenses.
Second, we need to end the drug war. Too many lives lost, cartels enriched and prisons are filled due to what is ultimately a medical problem. We need to focus on finding pharmaceutical cures/therapies for addiction, since to be blunt, rehab pretty much doesn't work either. I know many feel very strongly that helping those caught in drug addiction is a form of moral hazard. At some point, we as a nation have to realize that many of our neighbors will at times fall short of our ideals for human behavior, and that compassion infused with pragmatism is a better route towards making individuals whole rather than stern judgement. I also am of a similar mind to prostitution.
Third, we need to research the development of better forms of PPE and non-lethal weaponry for officers. Perhaps looking into switching to electric-shock type bullets or shooting tasers rather than firearms, and enforcing the wearing of helments/padding to protect against assault. We have to recognize that if officers feel less threatened they're less likely to employ deadly or excessive force.
Second, we need to end the drug war. Too many lives lost, cartels enriched and prisons are filled due to what is ultimately a medical problem. We need to focus on finding pharmaceutical cures/therapies for addiction, since to be blunt, rehab pretty much doesn't work either. I know many feel very strongly that helping those caught in drug addiction is a form of moral hazard. At some point, we as a nation have to realize that many of our neighbors will at times fall short of our ideals for human behavior, and that compassion infused with pragmatism is a better route towards making individuals whole rather than stern judgement. I also am of a similar mind to prostitution.
Agreed we need to treat drug addiction. But it's a "societal problem", not a medical problem in my opinion. People need a purpose. They need a reason to stay off drugs.
That means having a job and raising a family. It worked for millennia yet here we are, trying to figure out why so many working class people are turning to drugs.
UBI and grandparents or single women raising fatherless children are a recipe for further disaster.
I'm happy this thread has garnered so many replies. Thanks to all of you who have chimed in.
Anyway, thinking about this deeper, there's several things that right off the bat as a society would go a long way towards helping to reduce the tensions between police and communities:
One, we need to focus on how we can lower the amount of contact African-American and Hispanic communities have with the police on a day to day basis, and one of those ways would be to have speed and red light cameras replace traffic stops nationwide. No one should feel like they are "Driving While Black" and this would go a long way towards lowering the hostility between neighborhoods and police. We also need to re-evaluate the best way to deal with "Quality of Life" offenses.
Second, we need to end the drug war. Too many lives lost, cartels enriched and prisons are filled due to what is ultimately a medical problem. We need to focus on finding pharmaceutical cures/therapies for addiction, since to be blunt, rehab pretty much doesn't work either. I know many feel very strongly that helping those caught in drug addiction is a form of moral hazard. At some point, we as a nation have to realize that many of our neighbors will at times fall short of our ideals for human behavior, and that compassion infused with pragmatism is a better route towards making individuals whole rather than stern judgement. I also am of a similar mind to prostitution.
Third, we need to research the development of better forms of PPE and non-lethal weaponry for officers. Perhaps looking into switching to electric-shock type bullets or shooting tasers rather than firearms, and enforcing the wearing of helments/padding to protect against assault. We have to recognize that if officers feel less threatened they're less likely to employ deadly or excessive force.
You actually touched upon the real issue which is community engagement.
When police and community meet frequently and get to know each other, when cops "walk the beat" and get to know the neighborhood and everyone in it, misunderstandings and violence go way down.
Boston reintroduced on-foot patrolling back in the 1990s in some troubled neighborhoods, and it greatly reduced crime. You see the same cop every day, you get to know him or her, and a bond of trust develops.
Or at least, you know that he knows you and recognizes you so you're more reluctant to act out.
I believe Giuliani's NYC also had this, but not sure. Also I'm not sure why these programs seem to have ended.
Over the years, though, meetings between neighborhood associations and the police have been very helpful to defuse the mutual distrust and tension.
I wish these Democrat cities had better leadership and were talking more about this kind of proven results instead of this ideological dead-end of "defund the police" which is driven by a left wing agenda.
One, we need to focus on how we can lower the amount of contact African-American and Hispanic communities have with the police on a day to day basis, and one of those ways would be to have speed and red light cameras replace traffic stops nationwide. No one should feel like they are "Driving While Black" and this would go a long way towards lowering the hostility between neighborhoods and police. We also need to re-evaluate the best way to deal with "Quality of Life" offenses.
Third, we need to research the development of better forms of PPE and non-lethal weaponry for officers. Perhaps looking into switching to electric-shock type bullets or shooting tasers rather than firearms, and enforcing the wearing of helments/padding to protect against assault. We have to recognize that if officers feel less threatened they're less likely to employ deadly or excessive force.
Actually red light cameras wont work in most jurisdictions because in court a camera cant prove you were driving.
What needs to happen is police policies need to change. No more check stops, No running plates searching for violations, and no pulling people over unless they actually committed a moving violation. Cops are forced to manifest stops and arrests based on quotas, and they hate it. Thats what led to NYPD arresting and booking innocent people for bogus reasons, they were under a ton of pressure to cook up the arrest numbers. It also leads to frustrated cops and citizens. We also need to stop the controllers of the cities from using the police to drum up violations to generate revenue.
We need to de-incentivize arrest numbers for climbing ranks and use other criteria for promotions.
De-escalation, better investigations, whatever makes the neighborhood better, not who punishes the best.
Cops dont want to go on social calls, they all say it, so reducing the amount of cops and using that money for other social programs is the way to go. Actually some of the money needs to go to training cops on better restraining technics so that they can better restrain arrestees trying to break away, but without torturing them. Too many cops get away with shooting at suspects running away.
Better supervision, better stress and attitude training and separate oversight committees so that prosecutors arent letting cops get away with murder. If all this can be accomplished, I have no problem with paying cops more. Right after that, we need those social workers to be in the neighborhoods talking to people and getting them to stop acting up and understand the police after improvements. By then, the social workers will be the bridge.
Only part I disagree with is the weaponry. I dont believe cops should be without guns until the government stops allowing illegal guns to run so rampant around the country. Cops cant fight auto rifles with tazers. I dont believe cops should be able to shoot unarmed suspects. They need better training to take people down.
You actually touched upon the real issue which is community engagement.
When police and community meet frequently and get to know each other, when cops "walk the beat" and get to know the neighborhood and everyone in it, misunderstandings and violence go way down.
Boston reintroduced on-foot patrolling back in the 1990s in some troubled neighborhoods, and it greatly reduced crime. You see the same cop every day, you get to know him or her, and a bond of trust develops.
Or at least, you know that he knows you and recognizes you so you're more reluctant to act out.
I believe Giuliani's NYC also had this, but not sure. Also I'm not sure why these programs seem to have ended.
Over the years, though, meetings between neighborhood associations and the police have been very helpful to defuse the mutual distrust and tension.
I wish these Democrat cities had better leadership and were talking more about this kind of proven results instead of this ideological dead-end of "defund the police" which is driven by a left wing agenda.
This is not a "democrat leadership" or partisan leadership thing. The reality is for most of our large metro areas city workers of all stripes live nowhere near the communities they serve because it is way too expensive to live nearby. So the police officers are disconnected culturally and geographically. I think in Oakland, less than 10% of officers live in Oakland, and under 35% live in our county.
I think everyone would agree better community relations would be helpful, but the way things are set up now and how departments are resourced have deprioritized building deep ties.
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. Thanks to all of you who have chimed in
. 