Why do you think guns rights have been restricted in the recent years? (racist, examples)

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by rlchurch

Thanks for the personal attack, but my education is about 6-7 grade levels byond your experience level.

An unprovable statement at best.

A personal attack at worst

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by rlchurch

I'll agree that gun violence in Canada is markedly lower than in the US. How's that for an inconvenient truth?

ohh rl; you and I had this discussion some time ago, and you've forgotten already? For the benefit of new readers though.....

Quick Point form:

1. The per capita crime rate overall in Canada is, yes, so far, lower than in the US. based on statistics for all US cities versus all Canadian cities. Of course the US has far more big cities with ghettos, mostly due to population density differences but also a far greater range of wealth and poverty in the US because we don't suppress free enterprise nor overtax the hardest workers here.

2. Gun registration is rampant and strict in Canada, but possession of truly illegal (full auto) firearms by Asian (western) and Haitian (eastern) gangs has grown spectacularly there. Lawbreakers break the law. Wow, eh?

3. The overall per capita gun violence rate in the US places it, if I recall correctly, at number 4 or 5 in the world. ALL the countries who exceed our violent crime rate are socialist or communist thug states with extremely restrictive gun ownership laws. Mexico, Russia, Cuba and others; all vastly more dangerous. In Canada, the violent crime rate in several big cities grows out of control despite the illusion foisted off on the bleeting sheeple that they are superior to and more "culturally evolved" than Americans...

4. Thus, it's proven: gun registration does nothing to decrease gun violence, and more likely increases it. Lax prosecution rates by ultra-liberal activist judges, liberal "rehab" ideas, early parole & release rates, illegal immigration (one of the major contributors in Canada, BTW) and the knowledge that the average citizen will be unarmed, have all contributed significantly to violent crime increases.

So, your clever well-thought-out and presented point that the Canadian gun crime rate is so much better in Frozen Stump, NorthWest Territories, pop. 124.6, than it is in downtown Baltimore is well taken for exactly what it's worth. rl, aren't you the one who occasionally talks about proper statistical analysis methodologies?

In that case, more valid is the info I provided to you once before (you ignored it then; you'll no doubt ignore it now). The crime rate in Seattle is about half what it is in similarly sized, similarly cultured and similarly depressingly rainly Vancouver. Seattle allows Concealed Carry; Vancouver registers knives & evil looking umbrellas. No guns allowed. This fact is as per the FBI, the Vancouver and Seattle mayors, and their respective PDs. Go ahead, ignore/deny it.

I know you can't carry a gun across the Mall, or in any other public place in tis national capital. How's that?

But soon enough, you will be able to. Note the recent ruling change that now allows me to carry my concealed wepaon in most National Parks. Sorry; we learn and apply logic here in the US, despite the tired efforts of wacko Orwellian liberals.

Originally Posted by Tricky D

You still haven't visited your American ghettos then? Or worked as a volunteer in 1 of your many soup kitchens?

It seems to me that America treats poverty as an individual problem, where the American citizen has failed to fulfil the American Dream while in The Netherlands poverty is considered a structural problem.

Nahh... we just have a far bigger and more diverse population. As usual, you don't know what you're talking about; you just toss out accusations.

We embrace "The Melting Pot" diversity concept, remember? Give us your tired, your restless, your illegal criminal aliens...

Hardly the situation in the Netherlands. It's a significantly more uniform society there. But, BTW, how about those pesky and increasingly problematic immigrant Muslims? It's all over the BBC World News, about once a month. Didn't notice it? Or too embarrassed to admit it, I'd say. Give it all about 5 - 10 years, even with your gun control laws, and we'll see if it's still a lovely bed of roses over there.

Besidez, you can’t combat poverty with a gun.

Who ever said that? We have numerous community assistance and poverty relief programs here. too many, actually; a lot of lazy fakers.

You blind or what? Or just sadly uninformed? Say.... you don't believe everything you hear about the US on TV do you?

I admit that America must have the most experience with serial killers since 3 out of 4 serial killers are American. And America also has the most inmates in the world.

But if the laws were uniformly applied globally, the world's largest per capita incarceration rate would be in Darfur, Kenya or your old Imperial African colony, S. Africa, right? Dutchmen: the world's most active and prolific slavers of old...

We Americans just happen to be more successful at putting more criminals where they belong. Well, except in DC...

Well, you guys continue to make it soooo easy. Please.. try to be more challenging, and less repetitive. Its getting a bit boring.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by rifleman

We Americans just happen to be more successful at putting more criminals where they belong.

LoL, and it is a proven fact that incarceration effectively prevents crime, right?

Dutchmen: the world's most active and prolific slavers of old...

Funny, I don't remember any American preventing the Dutch slavers from doing their business.
As a matter of fact they were more than willing to make a buck out of it.

I guess that you Americans finally admit that demand is king.
No, it is God.
The only God in America is Da Almighty $, isn't it?

[Greatday]

A major issue in the US Crime rate is the almost unbridled flow of illegal immigrants / immigration.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Greatday

A major issue in the US Crime rate is the almost unbridled flow of illegal immigrants / immigration.

Are you implying that only illegal immigrants commit crimes in America?
Gee, I'm wondering who is living in La-La Land here.

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t fascists always blame their problems on foreigners (read: immigrants)?

[stycotl]

reading comprehension seems not to be on your side, tricky. he said that illegal immigration was a problem, not that it caused all problems. it is amusing how you like to latch on to one word or phrase, take it completely out of context, and try to tell us that we're not telling you what we're telling you.

sounds like you don't really want a debate after all; there are other forums for conversations along those lines.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by stycotl

reading comprehension seems not to be on your side, tricky. he said that illegal immigration was a problem, not that it caused all problems.

LoL I never said Greatday said that illegal immigration caused all the problems, I only asked if he did imply it.
I guess you suck more at reading comprehension than I do.
And English even isn't my 1st language.

[stycotl]

you didn't just ask if he implied that it did, you implied yourself that that is what he said. otherwise you wouldn't have insulted him about living in lala land. helps if you remember what you wrote. luckily, it is only three posts above.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by GreatdayAre you implying that only illegal immigrants commit crimes in America?
Gee, I'm wondering who is living in La-La Land here.

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t fascists always blame their problems on foreigners (read: immigrants)?

You are, without a doubt, one of the most fanatically stubborn, yet error-prone, writers ever to grace these pages. Yep, sure, our illegal immigrants are no problem at all. So what if (statistical fact) over 60% of that vast number of incarcerated people you tossed out a few posts back are, in fact, illegal criminal immigrants.

Of course, having been asked a direct question about the similar growing problems with immigrant Muslims in your fantasy society, you chose to ignore it. Of course.

Greatday says " A major issue in the US Crime rate is the almost unbridled flow of illegal immigrants / immigration."

To which you tritely respond: "Are you implying that ONLY illegal immigrants commit crimes in America?"

Is that what you think he said or are you again just being combative on purpose? Are you daft or just plain permanently argumentative? Or perhaps (this MUST be it...) you don't actually understand the written English language. Or when cornered with logic you lash out with illogic and just plain make things up?

How horribly sad for you. You must still be in the 8th grade if this is your level of comprehension....

Well, it's back to the "ignore" trash pile with you. I thought I'd give you another chance but you've now fully proved my point. You've proven time and time again that you're incapable of rational adult discussion; you love to try to infuriate folks and think that's clever and intellectual. Again, enjoy your Grd 8 schooling this year. (I'd be willing to bet that you're also a schoolyard bully of no mean reputation, had the pulp kicked out of you by some guys who couldn't stand your brash agressive and insulting remarks anymore, and now you're on the hunt for anyone you can intimidate. Nice lifestyle and personality! And BTW, it didn't work. We can always just turn you off.)

Perhaps when you graduate from middle school in a few more years we can talk.

[thotful1]

I'm very sorry to see you go, rifleman, but I understand your frustration with this man Tricky D. I think a lot of others find him quite annoying as well. I've read the last few pages of his posts and he seems to be quite immature or stubborn. Perhaps that is how he wants to be thought of.

I was also curious about your question to him that he wouldn't answer about crime and Muslims in Holland so I Googled it. The results were amazing and prolific! They have some real problems over there. No wonder Mr "D" is embarrassed to respond!

I picked out a few sections of the first five or six articles I found. There were lots more. Apparently America has some advantages and an upper hand, through its experiences in dealing with problems in immigration and problem neigborhouds compared to the Dutchmen's naivete!


Sorry this is so long, but I tried to show the important parts. I'm also responsible for underlining some things that particularly struck me.

Problems in Holland

Rod Dreher on Pim Fortuyn on National Review Online

Whether Peter Fortuyn's murderer turns out to have Islamic connections or is part of the extreme Left, the sobering truth is that Europe — democratic, gun-controlling Europe — is a place where questioning the immigration status quo will not only get you branded a fascist by the news media, it will get you shot dead.

It is hard to overestimate the psychological impact the killing is having in Holland, a bourgeois and orderly country that prides itself on tolerance.
"We were a quiet, normal country, where we never had any big criminal things happening," says Marnix Kort, 36, of Haarlem. "This changes everything. We have become a banana republic in an instant."

Fortuyn challenged one of the fundamental principles of liberal Dutch culture: Thou shalt not be seen as intolerant. Immigration and immigration-related crime are not new problems in the Netherlands, but the ability to speak openly about it is. For years, the ruling elite, which includes the media, has made discussion of the growing immigration problem taboo, on pain of being branded a crypto-Nazi.

"The clock is ticking in Europe, and is ticking in a democratic way," says Hulsman. "Maybe now is the time to begin real dialogue about immigration, crime and culture, because if a real one isn't begun, these impulses that can't be processed through democratic institutions are going to have ugly manifestations. This is the problem in Europe: nothing of real significance is ever discussed by the political elites."

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS January 31, 2005
ROTIERDAM, Netherlands: Citing security concerns, organizers of the Rotterdam Film Festival called off Sunday's screening of a short film by murdered Dutch moviemaker Thee van Gogh that has outraged some Muslims.

A suspected Islamic extremist allegedly shot and stabbed van Gogh to death in November shortly after the release of the film, “Submission,” which is a fierce critique of the treatment of women under Islam written by an anti-immigration member of parliament.

Jewish World Review Jan. 17, 2005

New York City is the epitome of the great melting pot of America. In just a five-block radius around my house, I can find residents from eleven different countries. My neighbors include Albanian, Palestinian and Pakistani Muslims; Polish, Puerto Rican, Honduran and Mexican Catholics; Korean Methodists; Hindus from India; and Buddhists from Sri Lanka. Everyone seems to get along without too much fuss. As much as we think that immigration is a serious problem here in the United States, we should thank our lucky stars we don't live in Holland.

Last week I attended a dinner meeting of think-tank representatives, foundation executives and other corporate luminaries there to meet two Dutch visitors, Dr. Bart Jan Spruyt, founder of the Edmund Burke Foundation and a Member of the Dutch Parliament, Geert Wilders.

MP Wilders has been making the rounds here in the States to publicize what is happening to his country (Holland) because of the rise of radical Islam and why he is promoting a moratorium on non-western immigration. He is also on record as objecting to Turkey joining the European Union. He resigned from the Freedom and Democracy People's Party (VVD) and is starting his own conservative political party.

Dr. Spruyt is the head of a Dutch conservative think tank and brought Wilders to America to network with those who advise him on how to proceed with promoting conservatism in the Netherlands. Holland has always been known for its liberalism and tolerance but the death of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh in November is turning out to be Holland's 9/11.

Geert Wilders is an MP in hiding when he is at home. He makes public appearances only when the legislature is in session. Dr. Spruyt, who has also received death threats from radical Islamists, told me that Wilders no longer has a home he can stay at. He travels with armed guards and lives on various military bases.

December 03, 2004, 5:28 p.m._Tiptoe Through the Tulips_Why Holland is nervous — and an alarming case for the entire West — Pim Fortuyn and Netherlands._

The Muslim population tends to be concentrated in low-income neighbourhoods. For example, while Moroccans made up 2% of the Dutch population in 2004, they made up some 8.5% of the population in Amsterdam and Utrecht, and 30-46% in disadvantaged neighbourhoods like Kanaleneiland in Utrecht and De Kolenkit and Osdorp-Midden in Amsterdam.[9] A quarter of both Moroccan and Turkish Dutch lives in neighbourhoods with a majority of non-Western residents.[10]

Housing quality and high levels of crime are often a problem in these (Dutch) neighbourhoods.

Like dissolute descendants of old money, the Dutch have been living for two generations now on the moral and spiritual capital built from centuries of religious faith and practice, however imperfect. The accounts are nearly depleted. "The Dutch believe that if it's possible, then you mustn't forbid it, you must tolerate it," says Focus on the Family's Hondsmerk. "We've had that for a generation now. That works as long as people have a natural self-control, but that is fast fading."

"What we are witnessing now is the very first generation who grew up without a religious background," says Kinneging. "What has happened until now is that most people without a religious background have become consumerists, materialists, and hedonists. They are still law-abiding citizens. We'll have to see what the next generation will become."

DRUG DECRIMINALIZATION IN HOLLAND HAS INCREASED CRIME AND ADDICTION. HON. GERALD B.H. SOLOMON OF NEW YORK
Holland has decriminalized drugs and tried harm reduction. Since the softening of drug policy there, shootings have increased 40%, robberies 62%, and car thefts 62%. This experiment which was meant to decrease organized crime has resulted in an increase in organized crime families from 3 in 1988 to 93 today.

The number of registered marijuana addicts has risen 30% and the number of other addicts has risen 22%.

Mr. "D", do you have a non-combative adult response to these rreports on yuor utopia, or will you insult me like you've insulted and chased off Mr. rifleman, who'se posts I have quite enjoyed in the past? He seems to get to the point very eloquently. You not so much I think. Perhpas you should apologize to him and others before proceeding? As an adult would.