Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Here's something else to consider: as bad as it is that educational standards have been scrapped in favor of "politically correct" curricula in the schools, think about how much screaming and yelling there would be the moment anyone tried to reintroduce them!
As a step in that direction, incidentally, I would like to propose that computers, MP3s and any similar hand-held electronic devices be banned from classrooms. Let Johnny learn how to do math using a pencil and a piece of paper...look up information in a library...and write his essay without access to Google, YouTube, spell check, or anything else that really only serves to keep him off track.
Yeah, I know; I'm a Neanderthal. But guess what? I'm a Neanderthal who knows how to write as well as spell correctly.
Here's something else to consider: as bad as it is that educational standards have been scrapped in favor of "politically correct" curricula in the schools, think about how much screaming and yelling there would be the moment anyone tried to reintroduce them!
As a step in that direction, incidentally, I would like to propose that computers, MP3s and any similar hand-held electronic devices be banned from classrooms. Let Johnny learn how to do math using a pencil and a piece of paper...look up information in a library...and write his essay without access to Google, YouTube, spell check, or anything else that really only serves to keep him off track.
Yeah, I know; I'm a Neanderthal. But guess what? I'm a Neanderthal who knows how to write as well as spell correctly.
So for a listening exercises, you would propose using a Victrola rather than MP3 or similar audio technology? Mono or newfangled stereo? Perhaps smoke signals would be better for the kids?
Books are fine. I use them all the time. But I don’t think we have to be so Puritanical. Searchable text is an absolute godsend for research. You are now able to retrieve the exact same information from a database in seconds that would have taken hours or tens of hours before. And those hours can be spent on something important like revising or polishing the report (which is the actual thinking part of the work) rather than wasting it by thumbing through a dozen books.
I agree on the math. A computer already knows how to calculate; it doesn’t need practice. But Johnny does need practice. Have Johnny learn math with his brain.
And spelling? Well... let me not even go there except to ask why we would expect Johnny to embrace chaos?
I work in an OR, a professional environment. Other staff members (who are professionals) in my opinion do not speak correctly. Substituting "axed" for "asked" and taking "l"s completely out of words. Now I'm from New York so we speak a little differently to begin with but this is a little far. The issue is everyone seems OK with it. Is this being allowed at schools? Opinions please.
Language is not a static and unchangeable medium. How many people without training can easily read English from the 1600's?
The "right" way to speak is really just someone's opinion of what should be right anyway. We's can talk how's we wants to, yeppers.
Actually, there aren't very many bigger problems in the world. The way Americans use their language reflects a general contempt for the members of the society in which we live. And it reflects a general disregard for the fundamental principle of education and scholarship as a path to logical and rational thought and progress.
This general contempt and disregard for other people's interests and our own behavior is being perpetuated by our assumptions that we are the policemen of the world, not merely expecting people to follow our example, but compelling them to do so under force of arms. That makes it a very big problem indeed.
The world being shaped and controlled by people who systematically reject propriety and embrace disorder and simply refuse to learn is a frightening menace.
I have disagreed with Mr. Tur88 on many occasions but not this time.
Language is not a static and unchangeable medium. How many people without training can easily read English from the 1600's?
The "right" way to speak is really just someone's opinion of what should be right anyway. We's can talk how's we wants to, yeppers.
You's can speak hows you wants but be prepared to be treated as such. Don't go crying and screaming about some sort of discrimination when you are dismissed as either uneducated or at best inarticulate.
UUUGGGGHHHHH!!!!! Thats exactly it! I had another "professional" ask me yesterday "where you got that?" I said I didn't "got" anything. Do people realize how uneducated they sound? "oh I axed her" Oh really you axed her and she's still at work? Thats dedication. If I was having a procedure done and someone was speaking like that to me I'd reschedule.
No kidding. Another one that gets me is "I is" ("I is going to lunch now").
Who cares if people use "space" instead of a specific room? Who truly cares if kids used miss instead of Ms. (the z sound at the end instead of an s sound). Languages evolve. And frankly, the purpose of language is for communication. If you can understand the other party speaking, language has achieved it's sole purpose. Language is not about who can follow the most arbritrary rules. It's only for communication.
My dad taught grammar for proffessionals. Lawyers, doctors, and politicians took his class. Initially, they came in saying they all felt they spoke English very well. In everyday life, they did. However, in this classroom setting they might as well have been speaking a different language. Why don't we follow every rule of grammar. Most people use "who" and "whom" incorrectly. As well as "I" and "me" (typically we overuse "I" when we should use "me"). We frequently use the wrong tense in speaking...the list goes on.
So the point of all this is that harping on minor points really is akin to throwing rocks in a glass house...unless you do actually speak PERFECT English.
No kidding. Another one that gets me is "I is" ("I is going to lunch now").
Yes, but have you ever questioned why it is, 'I am...' ? Why? Just because?
Wouldn't it make more logical sense to keep the present tense of 'to be' invariable over the tense?
So, I is..., we is..., she is..., they is... , etc?
Yes, it sounds weird to our ears, but think about it logically. Isn't that the rule for regular verbs in English? And wouldn't it be easier for new learners to remember and use? I've never been able to understand why nobody questions the way we speak. Everyone is so into new ways of doing things and shunning tradition... until we start talking about language. Why do we accept irregular verbs that do not follow the parttern of our language? Sure would make things easier and more logical all the way around if we worked toward making the language consistent. Especially since English is the big boy on the block right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy
Who cares if people use "space" instead of a specific room? Who truly cares if kids used miss instead of Ms. (the z sound at the end instead of an s sound). Languages evolve. And frankly, the purpose of language is for communication. If you can understand the other party speaking, language has achieved it's sole purpose. Language is not about who can follow the most arbritrary rules. It's only for communication.
My dad taught grammar for proffessionals. Lawyers, doctors, and politicians took his class. Initially, they came in saying they all felt they spoke English very well. In everyday life, they did. However, in this classroom setting they might as well have been speaking a different language. Why don't we follow every rule of grammar. Most people use "who" and "whom" incorrectly. As well as "I" and "me" (typically we overuse "I" when we should use "me"). We frequently use the wrong tense in speaking...the list goes on.
So the point of all this is that harping on minor points really is akin to throwing rocks in a glass house...unless you do actually speak PERFECT English.
Great points. There isn't one person here who speaks or writes English 100% 'correctly' and by the book. Each of us are hypocrites (there is a broken rule in this sentence--see it?). We can crack open a behemoth English reference grammar and find fault in any written or spoken dialog if we try hard enough.
I'm all for giving English a MAJOR facelift anyway. I cry about that constantly.
I keep hearing the word, Reggin'. What does it mean?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I cry about that constantly.
