Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And you still don't get it, and I've a feeling you never will. If it was a "genetic abnormality", then it would've been spotted right away.
Yes, people are indeed born with a predisposition towards one of the sexual catagories, but not everything you're born with is a "genetic" trait.
There is also no indication that some families are "prone to gayness" either, further showing it isn't a "genetic abnormality" which can indeed be passed down through the generations.
You claim to support gays, yet you continue to use anti-gay terminology and misinformation.
My gosh, for all the talk we've seen here about science and scientific discoveries.... why would you even make such a comment? Just because they haven't FOUND a gene that predisposes people to same-sex attraction, it doesn't mean that they WON'T!! That's the beauty of science....it's why they keep working at it! They are TRYING to answer questions that they don't have the answers for! It's not like we know it all.... Jeez just because YOU'RE a know-it-all, it doesn't mean that you know it all! Get over it.....because you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. You've read it somewhere....that doesn't mean that it's the truth. There's a huge difference between reading some idea that someone else has and knowing the truth. Climb out of your box for cryin out loud!
My gosh, for all the talk we've seen here about science and scientific discoveries.... why would you even make such a comment? Just because they haven't FOUND a gene that predisposes people to same-sex attraction, it doesn't mean that they WON'T!! That's the beauty of science....it's why they keep working at it! They are TRYING to answer questions that they don't have the answers for! It's not like we know it all.... Jeez just because YOU'RE a know-it-all, it doesn't mean that you know it all! Get over it.....because you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. You've read it somewhere....that doesn't mean that it's the truth. There's a huge difference between reading some idea that someone else has and knowing the truth. Climb out of your box for cryin out loud!
Feel free to point to ANY research that has discovered any gene responsible for sexual orientation.
The Human Genome Project was completed in 2000. Therefor, it should be quite easy for you to find information on which gene is responsible for sexual orientation.
There is nothing to your ad hominems, sorry. I don't think I "know it all" but I do try to stay current in certain areas of research, especially concerning areas related to subjects that concern me, like Equality for Gays, and especially concerning those failed arguments the anti-gay community attempts to justify their agenda with. Such as some genetic predisposition for homosexuality.
I remember having this debate some time ago in a social science class. Gay people argue that they do not choose to be gay, yet being gay or having an attraction to the same species is clearly not a behaviour intended by nature in a species that is suppose to reproduce using a male and a female. So if gays do not choose to be gay, and it is not the way nature intended most people to use their bodies, otherwise we would all be hermaprodites, then is gay a disease, hormonal imbalance, or something else. I lean towards Hormonal imbalance or mild disease of the mind but am want to hear other views.
I say it is either "born instilled" or circumstantial.
And what I mean by circumstantial is, basically, influence. I once had a gay male friend who was introduced to "it" as a small child by a family member (cousin), he liked it, had tendencies towards his own sex ever since. I wouldn't say that he "chose" to be gay, because whe he was exposed to it he was too little to be concerned.
Hormonal? Maybe. But if it's that simple then it should be easier to "fix", wouldn't you say? I think one's orientation can be predetermined before birth, be "wired" differently. But medical science doesn't know the causes yet and may not for a long time.
Feel free to point to ANY research that has discovered any gene responsible for sexual orientation.
The Human Genome Project was completed in 2000. Therefor, it should be quite easy for you to find information on which gene is responsible for sexual orientation.
There is nothing to your ad hominems, sorry. I don't think I "know it all" but I do try to stay current in certain areas of research, especially concerning areas related to subjects that concern me, like Equality for Gays, and especially concerning those failed arguments the anti-gay community attempts to justify their agenda with. Such as some genetic predisposition for homosexuality.
Again.....just because they haven't isolated it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Remember this would apply to those who just are. Please don't make it sound like I am gay bashing, because I certainly am not. Again, I have had friends who are gay, the only reason we don't speak is that we never see each other. Never, have I disassociated myself with someone becaue they were homosexual. I try to see the good in everyone, regardless of their beliefs and/or sexual orientation. If they're good.....I like them. If they're evil, I don't have anything to do with them. It's as simple as that. Being a homosexual does not make you a bad person, anymore than being an alcoholic or someone addicted to drugs make you a bad person.
It all boils down to choices, do you care what other people think? If you choose the homosexual lifestyle, because you ARE who you ARE and you don't care what anyone else thinks, don't go around whining because heterosexuals don't THINK you're making the right decision! After all...they're the ones claiming to not care! Those defending them and trying to make excuses for them.... shut the h*ll up and mind your own business. After all, they don't care what anyone thinks about their choices, why should you make it their business. We don't have to like what someone does to like them as a person....but we also don't have agree with a lifestyle that we are vehemently opposed to either.
Practice what you preach! If you don't like someone telling you your thinking is wrong, have the same consideration for others. Jeez, how difficult is that for such a "well-read" person such as yourself? I've had a successful marriage for almost 28 years..... BECAUSE we agree to disagree on a few things. I have friendships which have survived nearly 1/2 a century....BECAUSE we agree to disagree and accept each other as we are...regardless of our differences.
Feel free to point to ANY research that has discovered any gene responsible for sexual orientation.
The Human Genome Project was completed in 2000. Therefor, it should be quite easy for you to find information on which gene is responsible for sexual orientation.
There is nothing to your ad hominems, sorry. I don't think I "know it all" but I do try to stay current in certain areas of research, especially concerning areas related to subjects that concern me, like Equality for Gays, and especially concerning those failed arguments the anti-gay community attempts to justify their agenda with. Such as some genetic predisposition for homosexuality.
And even with the human genome project complete, they haven't been able to isolate every single gene and what it does. Whats the reaction to this gene, if this one does something else.
There is still a lot of different possibilities to what causes homosexuality. I think its in the genes, or a homone at the wrong time during pregnancy.
You constantly attack people who support gays, and support their civil rights, because we speculate on what causes homosexuality. Personally, I think you would do better with your time if you focused on those who are attacking your position.
We may disagree on how we got to the fork in the road, but we agree on which way to go from here.
Again.....just because they haven't isolated it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Remember this would apply to those who just are. Please don't make it sound like I am gay bashing, because I certainly am not. Again, I have had friends who are gay, the only reason we don't speak is that we never see each other. Never, have I disassociated myself with someone becaue they were homosexual. I try to see the good in everyone, regardless of their beliefs and/or sexual orientation. If they're good.....I like them. If they're evil, I don't have anything to do with them. It's as simple as that. Being a homosexual does not make you a bad person, anymore than being an alcoholic or someone addicted to drugs make you a bad person.
It all boils down to choices, do you care what other people think? If you choose the homosexual lifestyle, because you ARE who you ARE and you don't care what anyone else thinks, don't go around whining because heterosexuals don't THINK you're making the right decision! After all...they're the ones claiming to not care! Those defending them and trying to make excuses for them.... shut the h*ll up and mind your own business. After all, they don't care what anyone thinks about their choices, why should you make it their business. We don't have to like what someone does to like them as a person....but we also don't have agree with a lifestyle that we are vehemently opposed to either.
Practice what you preach! If you don't like someone telling you your thinking is wrong, have the same consideration for others. Jeez, how difficult is that for such a "well-read" person such as yourself? I've had a successful marriage for almost 28 years..... BECAUSE we agree to disagree on a few things. I have friendships which have survived nearly 1/2 a century....BECAUSE we agree to disagree and accept each other as we are...regardless of our differences.
1. You claim not to "hate gays" and that you're not "bashing gays" yet you use the same exact terminology of the anti-gay community. The APA, the organization responsible for the DSM diagnostic and treatment codex used by most of the world, states catagorically that it is NOT a choice, nor a lifestyle. There simply is no "gay lifestyle" at all.
2. The anti-gay community has been searching for decades for the "gay gene" to prove themselves right and to offer "cures". Nothing has been found to date despite the compeletion of human genome mapping.
3. You telling me I "am wrong" on this subject is also telling the entire legitimate mental health field that they are wrong as well. Sorry, but I'll take their word well before yours. Those professionals state, unequivicably, that the mechanisms behind ALL forms of sexual orientation are exactly the same. It is no more a choice to be gay than a choice to be hetero.
And even with the human genome project complete, they haven't been able to isolate every single gene and what it does. Whats the reaction to this gene, if this one does something else.
There is still a lot of different possibilities to what causes homosexuality. I think its in the genes, or a homone at the wrong time during pregnancy.
You constantly attack people who support gays, and support their civil rights, because we speculate on what causes homosexuality. Personally, I think you would do better with your time if you focused on those who are attacking your position.
We may disagree on how we got to the fork in the road, but we agree on which way to go from here.
If you think I "attacked you" for pointing out that you use the terminology used by the anti-gay movement, then you ahve some soul searching to do.
If you think I "attacked you" for pointing out that you use the terminology used by the anti-gay movement, then you ahve some soul searching to do.
Chromosome linkage studies of sexual orientation have indicated the presence of multiple contributing genetic factors throughout the genome. In 1993, Dean Hamer and colleagues published findings from a linkage analysis of a sample of 76 gay brothers and their families.[15] Hamer et al. found that the gay men had more gay male uncles and cousins on the maternal side of the family than on the paternal side. Gay brothers who showed this maternal pedigree were then tested for X chromosome linkage, using twenty-two markers on the X chromosome to test for similar alleles. In another finding, thirty-three of the forty sibling pairs tested were found to have similar alleles in the distal region of Xq28, which was significantly higher than the expected rates of 50% for fraternal brothers. This was popularly (but inaccurately) dubbed as the 'gay gene' in the media, causing significant controversy.
A later analysis by Hu et al. replicated and refined these findings. This study revealed that 67% of gay brothers in a new saturated sample shared a marker on the X chromosome at Xq28.[16] Sanders et al. (1998) replicated the study, finding 66% Xq28 marker sharing in 54 pairs of gay brothers.[17] Although two other studies (Bailey et al., 1999; McKnight and Malcolm, 2000) failed to find a preponderance of gay relatives in the maternal line of homosexual men[17], a rigorous replication of the maternal loading was reported on samples in Italy in England. One study by Rice et al. in 1999 failed to replicate the Xq28 linkage results.[18] Meta-analysis of all available linkage data indicates a significant link to Xq28, but also indicates that additional genes must be present to account for the full heritability of sexual orientation.
Mustanski et al. (2005) performed a full-genome scan (instead of just an X chromosome scan) on individuals and families previously reported on in Hamer et al. (1993) and Hu et al. (1995), as well as additional new subjects.[19] With the larger sample set and complete genome scan, the study found somewhat reduced linkage for Xq28 than reported by Hamer et al. However, they did find other markers with significant likelihood scores at 8p12, 7q36 and 10q26. Interestingly, one of the links showed highly significant maternal loading, thus further confirming the previous family studies.
There, various research showing some link to genetics and homosexuality. Most of the researchs also say it takes other factors, such as the prenatal environment, homone levels, and even some outside influence in their upbringing. However, there is definetly a genetic link to homosexuality.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on me calling it "abnormal". The gay friends I have seem to have no problem with it. They realize I'm not using it to belittle them, its simply a scientific term, that I am applying to a scientific debate.
Chromosome linkage studies of sexual orientation have indicated the presence of multiple contributing genetic factors throughout the genome. In 1993, Dean Hamer and colleagues published findings from a linkage analysis of a sample of 76 gay brothers and their families.[15] Hamer et al. found that the gay men had more gay male uncles and cousins on the maternal side of the family than on the paternal side. Gay brothers who showed this maternal pedigree were then tested for X chromosome linkage, using twenty-two markers on the X chromosome to test for similar alleles. In another finding, thirty-three of the forty sibling pairs tested were found to have similar alleles in the distal region of Xq28, which was significantly higher than the expected rates of 50% for fraternal brothers. This was popularly (but inaccurately) dubbed as the 'gay gene' in the media, causing significant controversy.
A later analysis by Hu et al. replicated and refined these findings. This study revealed that 67% of gay brothers in a new saturated sample shared a marker on the X chromosome at Xq28.[16] Sanders et al. (1998) replicated the study, finding 66% Xq28 marker sharing in 54 pairs of gay brothers.[17] Although two other studies (Bailey et al., 1999; McKnight and Malcolm, 2000) failed to find a preponderance of gay relatives in the maternal line of homosexual men[17], a rigorous replication of the maternal loading was reported on samples in Italy in England. One study by Rice et al. in 1999 failed to replicate the Xq28 linkage results.[18] Meta-analysis of all available linkage data indicates a significant link to Xq28, but also indicates that additional genes must be present to account for the full heritability of sexual orientation.
Mustanski et al. (2005) performed a full-genome scan (instead of just an X chromosome scan) on individuals and families previously reported on in Hamer et al. (1993) and Hu et al. (1995), as well as additional new subjects.[19] With the larger sample set and complete genome scan, the study found somewhat reduced linkage for Xq28 than reported by Hamer et al. However, they did find other markers with significant likelihood scores at 8p12, 7q36 and 10q26. Interestingly, one of the links showed highly significant maternal loading, thus further confirming the previous family studies.
There, various research showing some link to genetics and homosexuality. Most of the researchs also say it takes other factors, such as the prenatal environment, homone levels, and even some outside influence in their upbringing. However, there is definetly a genetic link to homosexuality.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on me calling it "abnormal". The gay friends I have seem to have no problem with it. They realize I'm not using it to belittle them, its simply a scientific term, that I am applying to a scientific debate.
Dean Hamer, a graduate of Trinity College, and is one of those I mentioned before, anti-gays looking for an excuse. Second, his "results" are not universally accepted, nor are they universally repeatable, such as in a study done in the Universety of Western Ontario, and as noted within your own copy/paste. Also noted on that same page are several factors which have scewed the results, such as self-selection biases.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
