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Old 09-19-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,695,563 times
Reputation: 3925

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
I know you have a hard to understanding.
If female circumcision is abuse, then so is male. Simple, very very very simple.
You have failed to make your case that cutting children is not abuse.
You still don't get it, do you?

- Nobody is trying to tell you what to do with your body. Nobody is trying to tell you what to do with your children, that you obviously haven't had yet. Yet you, in your fanatical froth, are trying to force your opinion on everyone else.

- Your opinion is just that. Opinion. It is NOT fact. It is NOT a medically established mandate. It is just your opinion. Nothing more.



And by the way, you're so far out of the realm of reality by bringing up "female circumcision (there really is no such thing)" that I'm not going to even bother blowing that boat clean out of the water.

 
Old 09-19-2009, 11:02 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,168,519 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
You still don't get it, do you?
- Nobody is trying to tell you what to do with your body. Nobody is trying to tell you what to do with your children, that you obviously haven't had yet. Yet you, in your fanatical froth, are trying to force your opinion on everyone else.
- Your opinion is just that. Opinion. It is NOT fact. It is NOT a medically established mandate. It is just your opinion. Nothing more.
And by the way, you're so far out of the realm of reality by bringing up "female circumcision (there really is no such thing)" that I'm not going to even bother blowing that boat clean out of the water.
My opinion - mutilating a child is wrong. I'm sorry you disagree.

You better google female circumcision.

You have no right to irreversible damage a child's body. Even if that child is your own. Your child is not your property, he/she is a person, with their own rights.
 
Old 09-19-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,695,563 times
Reputation: 3925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
My opinion - mutilating a child is wrong. I'm sorry you disagree.

You better google female circumcision.

You have no right to irreversible damage a child's body. Even if that child is your own. Your child is not your property, he/she is a person, with their own rights.
I agree that mutilating a child is wrong.

But YOU are WRONG when you say that circumcision is mutilating a child. You have a long ways to go to convince the entire medical profession that you are right and they are wrong.

You also have a long ways to go to convince any intelligent person that what you refer to as "female circumcision" is even remotely similar to actual circumcision.



Now please enlighten us all... How many children do you have?
 
Old 09-19-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,168,519 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I agree that mutilating a child is wrong.
But YOU are WRONG when you say that circumcision is mutilating a child. You have a long ways to go to convince the entire medical profession that you are right and they are wrong.
You also have a long ways to go to convince any intelligent person that what you refer to as "female circumcision" is even remotely similar to actual circumcision.
Now please enlighten us all... How many children do you have?
Entire medical profession? You like making claims without backing it up.
A condom does a better job then circumcision.
Any your "they might have bad hygiene" argument is total BS.

Anyone who understands the English language will understand that circumcision is mutilation.
mutilate - To disfigure by damaging irreparably.

I have an easy time convincing intelligent people that it is child abuse, people that actually understand the English language.

Both female, and male circumcision cause irreparable damage to the genitals. Just because you do more cutting with female circumcision does not make male circumcision any less of a crime.

What has having children got to do with understanding that genital mutilation is child abuse?
 
Old 09-19-2009, 11:27 PM
 
Location: California
37,151 posts, read 42,256,168 times
Reputation: 35034
I don't think most men consider themselves mutilated so why do you?
 
Old 09-19-2009, 11:40 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,168,519 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I don't think most men consider themselves mutilated so why do you?
So what they think, can change the establish definition of words?
I think the better question is, would they let someone take a knife to their penis? If not, why would they let someone take a knife to your child's?
 
Old 09-19-2009, 11:53 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,168,519 times
Reputation: 592
Anyone who supports circumcision must admit using their logic we can advocate mastectomy on all babies, on the off chance that you might get breast cancer.
 
Old 09-19-2009, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,980 posts, read 14,577,445 times
Reputation: 14863
The American Academy of Pediatrics covers all the facts concisely in a non-emotional way in their Circumcision Policy Statement. And here is their policy statement on Female Genital Mutilation, also known as female circumcision.
 
Old 09-20-2009, 03:41 AM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
11,280 posts, read 11,047,002 times
Reputation: 19784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Why does this matter? If cutting off and arm make you more attractive to women, it would not justify cutting babies arms off.
Dude, do you live on the same planet as the rest of us? Is this a real debate? You are comparing a simple operation on a newborn baby to hacking off limbs, like we live in Darfur or something. Regardless whether you choose to leave your child "jacket-on" or "jacket-off" is up to the parent. Circumcision is what more people than not prefer to do in the U.S.
 
Old 09-20-2009, 05:25 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,168,519 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Dude, do you live on the same planet as the rest of us? Is this a real debate? You are comparing a simple operation on a newborn baby to hacking off limbs, like we live in Darfur or something. Regardless whether you choose to leave your child "jacket-on" or "jacket-off" is up to the parent. Circumcision is what more people than not prefer to do in the U.S.
Depending on the amount of skin cut off, circumcision robs a male of as much as 80 percent or more of his penile skin. Depending on the foreskin's length, cutting it off makes the penis as much as 25 percent or more shorter. Careful anatomical investigations have shown that circumcision cuts off more than 3 feet of veins, arteries, and capillaries, 240 feet of nerves, and more than 20,000 nerve endings.31 The foreskin's muscles, glands, mucous membrane, and epithelial tissue are destroyed, as well.

How is circumcision done?
Most parents don’t know what is actually done to a baby when he is circumcised. The baby is placed spread-eagle on his back on a board and his arms and legs are strapped down so that he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic. His foreskin is torn from the head of his penis and slit lengthwise so that the circumcision instrument can be inserted. Then his foreskin is cut off....

Circumcision is extremely painful – and traumatic – for a baby. Just being strapped down is frightening for a baby. The often repeated statement that babies can't feel pain is not true. Babies are as sensitive to pain as anyone else. Most babies scream frantically when their foreskins are cut off. Some defecate. Some lapse into a coma. The reason some babies don't cry when they are circumcised is that they can't cry because they are in a state of shock. Most babies are circumcised without an anesthetic. Anesthetics injected into the penis don’t always work. Being stuck with a needle in the penis is itself painful for a baby, just as it would be for anyone else. Babies are rarely given pain medication right after they are circumcised or during the week to ten days it takes for the wound to heal. Pain medication is not always effective and is never 100% effective....

Most parents who see what is done to a baby when he is circumcised and how he reacts decide against circumcision and let their baby keep his foreskin intact.

I have watched a child suffer through this. I have never seen a baby struggle so hard in a useless attempt to get out of the device he was strap too and away from the person who is causing them so much pain.

At least when we cut off someones arm, we make sure they don't feel a thing.
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