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I think we are at a critical juncture in America in regards to race relations. Historically, whites have been the antagonist and black the protagonist. This has left a stain upon the moral image of white America and white America is desperate to hide that stain. That’s the problem. White’s efforts are at covering up the stain and not cleaning up the stain.
Today, no one is a self described racist. I don’t care who you ask or what hate group they belong; they will not acquiesce to the label of racist. When members of traditional hate groups don’t see themselves as racist, when the obviously are, it renders everyone’s personal exemption to be meaningless. The only time whites tend to acknowledge white racism, these days, is to mention it in the same breath as black racism, to make it a wash. The implications being that both are the moral equivalence.
When whites are not covering up the stain many are now saying that it is not actually a stain, but simply part of the fabric. It works like this. Truth is righteous. Racism is unrighteous. Hence, their observations of blacks are based upon truths, which are backed up by statistics and hence their perception of blacks is based upon TRUISM and not RACISM. If one does not want to live around blacks for fear of violent crime, such is not racism, but a truism backed by data. If one does not want to send their kids to school with blacks, because predominately black’s schools have lots of problems, such is not racism, but rather, truism. Therefore, whites who feel this way don’t see themselves as racist because they are basing their opinion on verifiable truths. So they are not racist, just righteous.
The problem is that people never ask what makes these truths true, if they are indeed true. What these truisms demonstrate is that black perform or behave on a level below whites, on average, which implies that for some reason, the average black person in inferior to the average white person. Why? What is the truism that explains the why? Well, there can only be internal stimuli and external stimuli or in other words, nurture or nature that explains it. Deductively, we know that whites overwhelmingly reject the notion that black behavior and problems of today are a reaction to the nurturing of a racist society. That’s considered and excuse or the “race card”….i.e.….a lie. Thus, with the external eliminated, deductively that only leads to the internal. Blacks, on average, are just inferior BY THEIR NATURE. Its only when you loop through the “why” (such is why is it true that blacks commit more crime? Then ask why to the answer that’s given…. ) that you uncover the stain.
There are also certain myths about what makes one not a racist. There is the myth that to be racist you must hate. There is the myth that to be a racist, you can’t have any black friends. There is the myth that to be a racist, you cannot have dated a black person. There is the myth that to be a racist you cannot grant exception to any black person and must look down upon them all. There is the myth that to be a racist you cannot see any black person in a favorable light. There is the myth that to be a racist, you could not have voted for Barak Obama. In general it’s a myth that one must “hate” EVERY black person in order to be a racist.
I point out these myths because racism in not rooted in HATE and its not rooted in ABSOLUTISM. The roots of racism are RATIONALIZATIONS (not emotions) of a racial hierarchy in which one race is inherently superior to the other(s). One does not have to hate something to believe that it is inferior. Many people love their pets, but they don’t see their pets as their equals in capacity. Thus, just because one does not hate black people does not mean that they do not see blacks as inferior. Also, the fact that individuals can and do acknowledge that some blacks are exceptional and hence worthy of their admiration, attraction and approval does not mean that you see the “Average” black person as on par with the average white person. In other words, racism is not how you feel about an individual, but rather, how you feel about “the group”. Hence, using “friends” who are black, blacks who you have dated, voting for the first black president or not harboring hate does not mean that you are not racist.
To me, the people who are not racist are the people who respect cause and effect and actions producing reaction. People who respect that the condition of everything, today, is the result of an evolution of actions and reactions over time, have the foundation to be free of racism. People who dismiss the past dismiss the EXPLANTION of why things are they way they are. If one dismisses the past they are invested in ignorance for a purpose and that purpose is usually to hold onto a preconceived notion or belief. The present cannot be explained without the use of the past because all actions create reactions that manifest over the time conium. Thus, its only the people who look at the past in conjunction with the present with the acknowledgement that actions create reactions and that the actions of 300 years worth of racism produced a reaction that manifest the present black condition in America. The inability or unwillingness to do this makes one a racist out of low IQ ignorance or willful ignorance. For when you elminate the past....it only leaves observations as explanation which then people can fill in the blanks with their prejudice.
You sure have written a lot there. I've come to the conclusion that most folks will look at a big long post and decide that a shorter post is quicker to read. So while at these interactive websites I always tell people to write less and more will be read. Of course I tell them in about fifteen paragraphs of text. Consequently my post is not read either.
Anyhow, I agree with what you say in that you can blame white folks for everything wrong with the "black community". Of course it's not that simple. An analogy would be to have a person who as a child was a victim of child abuse. As an adult he has all kinds of social troubles. So, do we blame the parents of the adult or the adult himself? Well, we really have no choice but to blame the adult himself. When it comes to race relations, perhaps the thing that gets overlooked is the almost irrepressible need to blame someone.
Also, you talked about how whites seem to want to point out black racism. You say that whites see that as making who's at fault a racially joint thing. I'm a guy who feels that we need to point out black racism because it's so seldom pointed out. Most white folks have been so inundated with how terrible white racism is, it is at the point where a kind of "racism fatigue" has set in. Not to say that there still isn't plenty of white racism, but it's been given a lot of attention. So maybe we can talk about another problem, that being racism in non-whites. Look at your entire last post. You talk about racism like white folks are the only ones capable of guilt. You even protest the mentioning of black racism. So here's another analogy; Just because heart disease is the number one killer, that doesn't mean that we should not be cognisant of cancer symptoms. After all, it's not a friendly disease either.
Of course, one person has to take my point entirely the wrong way. I meant "meaningless" in the sense that skin colour SHOULD NEVER BE A REASON TO DISCIMINATE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I meant IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT COLOUR ANYBODY'S SKIN IS!!!!!!!!!
True, in an ideal world it should not matter. The fact is though that we live in a world that has been shaped by systems of oppression against people with darker skin pigmentation. I'm suspicious of anyone claiming that race doesn't matter so we shouldn't talk about it because its just a way of avoiding important discussions of what we can do to correct the wrongs of the past. These are the same people who say affirmative action is racist. Its not a coincidence that whites in this country still hold a disproportionate amount of wealth and positions of power. Burying one's head in the sand is not the solution.
Lets talk about the ethnic cleansing in some African countries, I don't think you wanna go there! Oh, and the murder of White farmers in South Africa by black tribes. Could go on if you like???
What does present day Africans have to do with modern day Black Americans? Do you equate the actions of the vikings to what White america does now? I did not think so
What does present day Africans have to do with modern day Black Americans? Do you equate the actions of the vikings to what White america does now? I did not think so
Its another white racist tactic of avoiding an important discussions by pointing to obscurities because the truth makes them uncomfortable.
You sure have written a lot there. I've come to the conclusion that most folks will look at a big long post and decide that a shorter post is quicker to read. So while at these interactive websites I always tell people to write less and more will be read. Of course I tell them in about fifteen paragraphs of text. Consequently my post is not read either.
Anyhow, I agree with what you say in that you can blame white folks for everything wrong with the "black community". Of course it's not that simple. An analogy would be to have a person who as a child was a victim of child abuse. As an adult he has all kinds of social troubles. So, do we blame the parents of the adult or the adult himself? Well, we really have no choice but to blame the adult himself. When it comes to race relations, perhaps the thing that gets overlooked is the almost irrepressible need to blame someone.
Also, you talked about how whites seem to want to point out black racism. You say that whites see that as making who's at fault a racially joint thing. I'm a guy who feels that we need to point out black racism because it's so seldom pointed out. Most white folks have been so inundated with how terrible white racism is, it is at the point where a kind of "racism fatigue" has set in. Not to say that there still isn't plenty of white racism, but it's been given a lot of attention. So maybe we can talk about another problem, that being racism in non-whites. Look at your entire last post. You talk about racism like white folks are the only ones capable of guilt. You even protest the mentioning of black racism. So here's another analogy; Just because heart disease is the number one killer, that doesn't mean that we should not be cognisant of cancer symptoms. After all, it's not a friendly disease either.
I don’t really concern myself with the array of possibilities to blame or the ramifications there of. I see blame as not being intellectual. I tend to focus on the intellectual exercise of cause and effect. Actions produce reaction. Adults who were denigrated and abused as children have a greater propensity to not only become failures, but to denigrate and abuse their own children, than adults were did not experience abuse as children. It’s not an issue of who is to blame, but rather, what explains. There is a reason for everything and we have advanced as humans by seeking to explain and understand phenomenon. Use of the term “blame”, in my opinion, seeks to caste aspersion on the cause or explanation, because it cannot be denied. It’s a “kill the messenger” response, due to the fact that some are unconformable with the explanation.
Are you the type of guy who likes to point out white crime, white children being born out of wedlock, white people making bad choices, whites who are irresponsible, etc, etc ? I can only assume that you are just as desirous to see whites seen as criminals and thugs, baby daddies, lazy and irresponsible because we are certainly saturated with that image being that of black people. That would ensure that there is no double standard at play. What I find is that a lot of whites want to level the playing field with blacks in regards to the bad things whites do, but they don’t want to level the playing field in regards to the good things whites do. In other words, whites leave me with the impression that blacks are just a bad as whites……but not just as good as whites.
This is important to me because I see the ground work being laid for a new rationalization for an increase in white racism. Whites are now taking the after effect of years of white racism upon blacks as the grounds for harboring prejudice against blacks. Today, blacks are not resentful of their history of mistreatment, instead, they are racist. Well, after 300 years of white society denigrating their humanity and abuse, is it not human nature to be a little resentful of the group that oppressed you? That human response therefore puts us in the category as the moral equivalent of white racism? I don’t think so. Reaction to being mistreated is a lot different from resenting someone who did absolutely nothing to you. However, history has been truncated in order to lay the foundation of a return of acceptable racism….especially in this era of diminishing economic returns.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-15-2010 at 04:02 PM..
I don’t really concern myself with the array of possibilities to blame or the ramifications there of. I see blame as not being intellectual. I tend to focus on the intellectual exercise of cause and effect. Actions produce reaction. Adults who were denigrated and abused as children have a greater propensity to not only become failures, but to denigrate and abuse their own children, than adults were did not experience abuse as children. It’s not an issue of who is to blame, but rather, what explains. There is a reason for everything and we have advanced as humans by seeking to explain and understand phenomenon. Use of the term “blame”, in my opinion, seeks to caste aspersion on the cause or explanation, because it cannot be denied. It’s a “kill the messenger” response, due to the fact that some are unconformable with the explanation.
Are you the type of guy who likes to point out white crime, white children being born out of wedlock, white people making bad choices, whites who are irresponsible, etc, etc ? I can only assume that you are just as desirous to see whites seen as criminals and thugs, baby daddies, lazy and irresponsible because we are certainly saturated with that image being that of black people. That would ensure that there is no double standard at play. What I find is that a lot of whites want to level the playing field with blacks in regards to the bad things whites do, but they don’t want to level the playing field in regards to the good things whites do. In other words, whites leave me with the impression that blacks are just a bad as whites……but not just as good as whites.
This is important to me because I see the ground work being laid for a new rationalization for an increase in white racism. Whites are now taking the after effect of years of white racism upon blacks as the grounds for harboring prejudice against blacks. Today, blacks are not resentful of their history of mistreatment, instead, they are racist. Well, after 300 years of white society denigrating their humanity and abuse, is it not human nature to be a little resentful of the group that oppressed you? That human response therefore puts us in the category as the moral equivalent of white racism? I don’t think so. Reaction to being mistreated is a lot different from resenting someone who did absolutely nothing to you. However, history has been truncated in order to lay the foundation of a return of acceptable racism….especially in this era of diminishing economic returns.
I'm not into "race comparing", as it looks like you are doing. I point out things that have to do with black culture and the black comminity only because to this point it is a different entity when compared to white culture and the white community. There are problems there that are simply more acute than in the white community.
The cause-and-effect you speak of is a look at history. We should remember it but not use it as an excuse.
Since I live primarily amongst white folks, I actually have more concern for white crime. It has the potential of having a greater impact on me. Any kind of crime concerns me, but white crime concerns me more.
I understand why some blacks are resentful, due to history. But should that manifest itself in behavior aimed at an ordinary white person? If it does, it is racism. There's a reason for all racism, be it black or white. If a white woman is raped by a black man should she be resentful of blacks? A resentment might be understandable, but I've got news for you, it's racism. Same is true with the white guy who got his car stolen by a black guy. Same is true when a white person looks at a publication featuring black crime statistics (as opposed to an American History publication that focuses on slavery). When do we say that racism is okay? I usually go with, nowhere. You can justify racism, but you will be worse off for it. And yeah, that goes for white folks too.
One cannot have a system that for 300 years divided and created a hierarchy of humans, based upon race, discriminated and wrote laws to preserve the hierarchy, and then cease recording the racial aftermath or consequence of those policies upon the races impacted. People only now seek to be color-blind as a way covering up the aftermath or racial impact of years of racism. Thus, yes, I am concerned with comparing the races because if we don’t then effort and resources will not be directed to where it is needed most.
When you say that we should remember it, but not use it as an excuse….what exactly do you mean? History is a resource to understand the present. The goal is not necessarily to remember history, but rather to promote the future, to explain the present and not reinvent the wheel. History is also a form of memory and memory is a biological necessity for survival. We learn from the patterns of history what has threatened our survival and what has promoted our survival. History is the most powerful thing that we have. Mathematics, science and the like all evolved over time. It’s like steps on a ladder with each generation building off what the previous generation left. Remove that history and humanity plummets. To not respect history is to not respect knowledge.
In regards to the term excuse, let’s be honest. The term excuse is simply a euphemism for “lie”. When you say that someone is making an excuse, it’s just a diplomatic way of telling them that they are lying. What you are saying is this. “Yes….we should remember history but don’t lie and say that history is the reason that blacks are in the condition they are in today”. What I have gleaned from both your rebuttals is that you are essentially saying “you are using history and blaming whites to lie about the real reason that blacks are in the condition they are in”. The question is, since we or I am using history as an excuse….what’s the real reason?
I have one other point to make. Where should black people be at this juncture, given the history of this nation? Are we underperforming as a people, given that history? In other words, should we be in a better condition than we are today? If so, then why? Who has set the standard for recovering from 3 centuries of oppression and denigration while continuing to live in the land and among the descendants of your people’s oppressors? What I find implicit in the critic of many whites is the assumption that we should be doing better than we are, despite our experience. I am sure you think that if whites had that experience, that whites would have recovered and reached equality long, long ago. Black inferiority/ white supremacy is hence again implicit. Had society ever decided to that they valued its black citizens enough to create a MARSHALL PLAN to promote our recovery from oppression like it crreate the Marshall Plan for the recory of Europe after WWII (whose descrution was not this nations doing...unlike what it did to blacks), blacks would be closer to equality today.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-15-2010 at 06:45 PM..
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