Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You may not like the light they emit, and that's fine, but they DO save LOT'S of money. Just do the math. It's largely a function of the increased average life of the bulb and the drastically reduced consumption of electricity. I actually did the math when I started using them. The LED bulb, at this point (because of the much higher cost), is slightly less cost-effective than the CFL, but still more cost-effective than incandescent. And the CFLs are fare more cost-effective than incandescent. We're talking hundreds of dollars over the life of the CFL bulb. I'll have to see if I can find the spreadsheet with the figures. It's pretty clear.
Nah, I don't buy it.
By the time any type of money could be maybe saved, Con Edison raises the rates....
I am in the same apartment for 25 years, I started a budget of 30 bucks, now the budget is 107, other than a computer, EVERYTHING in the apartment is the same................you think if I had these light bulbs my electric bill would have been lower.
By your, my, and every living human on this planet's very definition, we are creatures of consumption. Every LIFE FORM on the planet consumes something to sustain life.
Yup, both pigs and a pig farmer consume essentials of life (and more), however the difference between consumption of a pig and consumption of a pig farmer is apparent. I was referring to that passive consumption of a pig that permeated all "democratic" institutions of ours and is being touted as an ecological "cure it all" by the Algorish types. It's not a fact that an individual pig developing a taste for caviar, for example, will force a farmer to change the feed accordingly. It's not a fact 1000 individual pigs craving for caviar will bring down pork industry.
As much as you would like to pretend to be an independent individual agent holding power of change in your individual actions, we live under rigid hierarchical social arrangements where the amount & kind of (over)consumption conveys social status and power. And not just that. The weight of your individual actions is roughly proportional to our place in the social order conveyed by your consumption. Those on the bottom of the pyramid are under constant pressure of their survival anxiety and unsatisfied social status urges. Go tell them to cut down on consumption, their world of making something of themselves will go crushing down, and from what I'm perceiving climbing up the social ladder is the last surviving human ideology & meaning, everything else is dead or dying. Nobody cancelled "tragedy of the commons" yet, your individual sacrifice will just throw you on the discarded social pile, there will be 100 people in line to get the crumbles losers sacrificed for the common good.
And it's just a small facet of the mega problem. I shall remind you that absolutely tiny minority of humans owns bulk of essential resources, land and production capacity. The rest of us "earn" survival rights by producing unessential goods and services. Are you prepared to die if overconsumption (a vague concept) is no more? How your individual actions would handle that?
I could go on and on, but the point is "society" is little bit more that mere accumulation of individuals and mere accumulation of individuals is little bit less that human society. Equally, H2O is little bit more than individual hydrogen and oxygen. So called concept of "emergent properties". You never thought why ideology of "individual solutions" is so dear to both low income libertarian types and to the people who owns this country? My guess - the first group is deeply delusional and the second (the one that matters) understands the concept of "emergent properties" rather well.
By the time any type of money could be maybe saved, Con Edison raises the rates....
I am in the same apartment for 25 years, I started a budget of 30 bucks, now the budget is 107, other than a computer, EVERYTHING in the apartment is the same................you think if I had these light bulbs my electric bill would have been lower.
seriously doubt it !!
Rising electric rates are going to cost you more regardless of which light bulb you are using. But the ratio in the power consumed isn't going to change. That 13 watt vs 60 watt thing will be there regardless.
Let's put it this way: if you drive a car that gets 7 mpg and your neighbor drives one that gets 35 mpg, will the fact that gas prices go up change the fact that you are ALWAYS going to pay more to drive (assuming you drive the same number of miles)? It won't matter if gas is $10 a gallon, you'll both be paying more for gas, but the neighbor will still be paying less than you.
If you've ever worked with a person addicted to something, you know that the only person that is going to break that addiction is that person. You can declare all the rules you like, give all the breaks you like, give all the aid you like, give all the group therapy you like... but it isn't going to help unless that person is willing and desirous to make a change.
AND feels some real Pain to get motivated away from the Pain.
Funny that the OP hasn't come back to post on here. I wonder why. Maybe he's just a troll.
Its one of those topics thats just thrown out there to cause a feeding frenzy of negativity from the right.
If you want to see a lot more similar posts explore the political section its chock full of the same kind of incitefull topics.
Troll? without a doubt.
Yup, both pigs and a pig farmer consume essentials of life (and more), however the difference between consumption of a pig and consumption of a pig farmer is apparent. I was referring to that passive consumption of a pig that permeated all "democratic" institutions of ours and is being touted as an ecological "cure it all" by the Algorish types. It's not a fact that an individual pig developing a taste for caviar, for example, will force a farmer to change the feed accordingly. It's not a fact 1000 individual pigs craving for caviar will bring down pork industry.
As much as you would like to pretend to be an independent individual agent holding power of change in your individual actions, we live under rigid hierarchical social arrangements where the amount & kind of (over)consumption conveys social status and power. And not just that. The weight of your individual actions is roughly proportional to our place in the social order conveyed by your consumption. Those on the bottom of the pyramid are under constant pressure of their survival anxiety and unsatisfied social status urges. Go tell them to cut down on consumption, their world of making something of themselves will go crushing down, and from what I'm perceiving climbing up the social ladder is the last surviving human ideology & meaning, everything else is dead or dying. Nobody cancelled "tragedy of the commons" yet, your individual sacrifice will just throw you on the discarded social pile, there will be 100 people in line to get the crumbles losers sacrificed for the common good.
And it's just a small facet of the mega problem. I shall remind you that absolutely tiny minority of humans owns bulk of essential resources, land and production capacity. The rest of us "earn" survival rights by producing unessential goods and services. Are you prepared to die if overconsumption (a vague concept) is no more? How your individual actions would handle that?
I could go on and on, but the point is "society" is little bit more that mere accumulation of individuals and mere accumulation of individuals is little bit less that human society. Equally, H2O is little bit more than individual hydrogen and oxygen. So called concept of "emergent properties". You never thought why ideology of "individual solutions" is so dear to both low income libertarian types and to the people who owns this country? My guess - the first group is deeply delusional and the second (the one that matters) understands the concept of "emergent properties" rather well.
WOW! What a bunch of mindless psycho babble!! I am entirely out of my league in this forum as I assumed we had a group of forward thinkers relying on innovation and common sense to get us through these troubled times. I am a "doer" and practice what I preach by living an "energy positive" lifestyle without the reliance of fossil fuels, allowing me the freedom to have no interest in affairs I cannot control. Instead I get a bunch of morons (and you know who you are) who can't focus on anything positive as it pertains to GREEN technology. Please, no more intellectual idiots!
Lets deal with facts rather than propaganda..........
When it comes to green living we'd all be better off if we:
~ kept our vehicles for 10 years or more
~ took care of our appliances
~ had things repaired rather than thrown away and buying new
~ stop buying bottled water ($15 Billion spent last year in America)
Last edited by plwhit; 06-16-2011 at 10:11 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
