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As far as I remember, GMOs were supposed to deliver us from overuse of herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, etc. (look up corporate and government PR for yourself, it's all in there). Instead agricultural uses of all kinds of poisons skyrocket as we speak. Sounds like agriculture and the future we all can believe in. And some especially eager folks in this thread do wet their pants from excitement. Science, progress, free market, democracy. You chant those incantations long enough and the bright future of corn and soybean deserts sprinkled with feedlots and chemical burger joints doesn't look that bad really, as long you have your gadgets and psychotropic pills.
Last edited by RememberMee; 08-25-2012 at 08:39 PM..
If the US has been dumping corn on Mexico, why do we need to grow so much corn, anyway? Clearly there's a huge surplus; such a surplus that agro-industry pushes inserting corn products (high fructose corn syrup, for one) into other foods, which really isn't in the public interest. The way the US "does" agriculture needs to be completely rethought.
As far as I remember, GMOs were supposed to deliver us from overuse of herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, etc. (look up corporate and government PR for yourself, it's all in there). Instead agricultural uses of all kinds of poisons skyrocket as we speak. Sounds like agriculture and the future we all can believe in. And some especially eager folks in this thread do wet their pant from excitement. Science, progress, free market, democracy. You chant those incantations long enough and the bright future of corn and soybean deserts sprinkled with feedlots and chemical burger joints doesn't look that bad really, as long you have your gadgets and psychotropic pills.
Actually, if you're interested in FACTS, your assertion of skyrocketing use of poisons is absolutely wrong. Dead wrong.
For instance, my father (who is long-since past retirement age but just loves to farm) uses ONE herbicide ONCE PER YEAR on all his crops. ONE pass with the contact-herbicide RoundUp has literally replaced the pre-emergent herbicides Sencor & Atrazine (as well as several other), in addition to multiple uses of the post-emergent herbicide 2 4d. Also, he no longer mechanically cultivates his crops, which means he saves almost a thousand of gallons of diesel fuel per year (think air pollution). It also leaves the topsoil untouched, which means less erosion.
Speaking of erosion... GMO hybrids have led to TRIPLE the amount of crop residue left in the fields after harvest. This means that the wind does not blow topsoil during the winter. In fact, the increased crop residue actually catches snow & helps create a thick ground cover. The residue then increases the organic matter in the soil.
America's farm ground is in far better condition than it has been since the first time it was tilled. SMART use of TECHNOLOGY is the reason.
City kids, who know nothing about agriculture except what they read in "green earth blogs" really need to have a crash course in REALITY before spreading nonsensical lies about modern farming practices.
By the way, did y'all know that most ORGANIC farmers use FAR MORE CHEMICALS than non-organic farmers? I'm sure you didn't...
If the US has been dumping corn on Mexico, why do we need to grow so much corn, anyway? Clearly there's a huge surplus; such a surplus that agro-industry pushes inserting corn products (high fructose corn syrup, for one) into other foods, which really isn't in the public interest. The way the US "does" agriculture needs to be completely rethought.
I don't know where you're getting your information, but there is actually a SHORTAGE of corn. That is why the price of it is at all-time, historic highs. And that is why livestock farmers are trying to halt the use of corn in ethanol production - at least temporarily.
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Actually, if you're interested in FACTS, your assertion of skyrocketing use of poisons is absolutely wrong. Dead wrong.
If you're interested in facts you would do some basic research on herbicide etc. consumption before posting. Dates are ready available. I hate to be a google search machine for those in denial, it's futile, but here what pinko commie Christian Science Monitor has to share on the issue: The authors of the report, entitled “Impacts of Genetically Engineered Crops on Pesticide Use,” used US Department of Agriculture data to look at America’s three largest genetically engineered crops – soybeans, corn, and cotton. They found that the amount of herbicides used on them has increased from 1996 to 2008 by approximately 7 or 8 percent, with a particularly sharp increase from 2005 on. More herbicide use reported on genetically modified crops - CSMonitor.com
Here are some numbers: Table 2 Average pesticide use per acre for corn, soybean and cotton, 2003-2008 and total pounds of pesticides applied, 1996-2008 [1]
For instance, my father (who is long-since past retirement age but just loves to farm) uses ONE herbicide ONCE PER YEAR on all his crops.
First, we are not talking about your father. Second, cash/wage farming and hobby farming (even hobby commodity farming) are two very different things.
Quote:
Speaking of erosion... GMO hybrids have led to TRIPLE the amount of crop residue left in the fields after harvest. This means that the wind does not blow topsoil during the winter. In fact, the increased crop residue actually catches snow & helps create a thick ground cover. The residue then increases the organic matter in the soil.
You don't make sense. How GMO hybrids have led to tripple the mount of crop residue? GMO corn stalks are 3 times taller or what? It's up to a farmer/manager how much crop residue to leave on the ground, GMO or not. If you are talking about "no - till" techniques trading less till for more of poisons, yes, they could increase crop residue during the winter TEMPORARILY because of soil compaction. In a year two they plow "no till" fields with increased "ferocity". Many fields are so compacted and devoid of soil life farmers don't even attempt "no till".
And what form of soil life would process all that increased residue bonanza? Industrial farming soils "boast" dying and greatly simplified biota. Chemical fertilizers and poisons are well known soil life killers. Increasingly what you have under all that triple the amount of crop residue - pulverized lifeless soil sponge absorbing chemical fertilizers and poisons. Sort of hydroponics under open sky. As soon as influx of chemical fertilizers stops, the "improved" fields produce SQUAT, literally. Immediate response. No fertilizers=SQUAT that simple. Compare that to good garden soils that can produce good yields for years without fertilizer inputs.
Quote:
America's farm ground is in far better condition than it has been since the first time it was tilled. SMART use of TECHNOLOGY is the reason.
Some (if not most) of farm ground is improved to the point where you could not find many worms alive, not speaking of the lesser soil creatures.
Quote:
City kids, who know nothing about agriculture except what they read in "green earth blogs" really need to have a crash course in REALITY before spreading nonsensical lies about modern farming practices.
I know quite a bit about agriculture first hand. What I cannot understand - farmers and rural folks in general who are not alarmed by transforming their areas into lifeless corn and soybean deserts where nothing else can survive. Not only that, they cheer and actively participate in whatever new destructive thing corporations unleash upon land and them. Thanks Zeus for city kids who know little but at least their hearts and minds are in the right place.
And it's not just soils and crops. Modern agriculture destroyed rural America (and not only America) as a unique social organism, soils are not the only thing that is dying. News flash, many heavy agricultural areas are soy bean, corn, human and cultural deserts ALREADY. It's here.
Quote:
By the way, did y'all know that most ORGANIC farmers use FAR MORE CHEMICALS than non-organic farmers? I'm sure you didn't...
I cheer for industrial organic industry just about the same, or less, as I cheer for the conventional agro.
Last edited by RememberMee; 08-26-2012 at 10:16 AM..
I don't know where you're getting your information, but there is actually a SHORTAGE of corn. That is why the price of it is at all-time, historic highs. And that is why livestock farmers are trying to halt the use of corn in ethanol production - at least temporarily.
There is anticipated "shortage" of corn at certain price this year only. Livestock "farmers", do you know many of those? Indentured contract growers, that's more like it. Tyson is scrambling its lobbyists, hopefully it will throw a bone to its contract peons too.
In this day and age, "notional" value (trading value of stocks, futures and the rest of the financial derivatives) doesn't really match real value of the underlying goods. Roughly $1 of real value creates $100 of the notional "value" in trades. It's one big casino, and you are not invited to the high roller tables. Unfortunately, once the casino game is over, the last players who stuck with financial instruments on their hands need to get rid of the pesky real goods & commodities. More frequently than not, that means you pay through the nose, supply-demand be damned, since there are no physical bounds to the notional value. It's safe to say that commodity markets lost their minds and purpose, complex derivatives and "supply-demand" simply don't mix.
However, high corn prices this year doesn't deny persistent and deliberate attempts of the US government to undermine ingenious, subsistence based Mexican agriculture using cheap Midwestern corn. It's was true obsession of the US government, republicans or democrats. That's what I noticed, anything subsistence based, not centralized, not on mercy of big corporations and big government regulators annoys the hell out of the US ruling elites. They simply cannot stand it and use all means necessary to destroy it.
Last edited by RememberMee; 08-26-2012 at 11:09 AM..
If you're interested in facts you would do some basic research on herbicide etc. consumption before posting. Dates are ready available. I hate to be a google search machine for those in denial, it's futile, but here what pinko commie Christian Science Monitor has to share on the issue: The authors of the report, entitled “Impacts of Genetically Engineered Crops on Pesticide Use,” used US Department of Agriculture data to look at America’s three largest genetically engineered crops – soybeans, corn, and cotton. They found that the amount of herbicides used on them has increased from 1996 to 2008 by approximately 7 or 8 percent, with a particularly sharp increase from 2005 on. More herbicide use reported on genetically modified crops - CSMonitor.com
Here are some numbers: Table 2 Average pesticide use per acre for corn, soybean and cotton, 2003-2008 and total pounds of pesticides applied, 1996-2008 [1]
First, we are not talking about your father. Second, cash/wage farming and hobby farming (even hobby commodity farming) are two very different things.
You don't make sense. How GMO hybrids have led to tripple the mount of crop residue? GMO corn stalks are 3 times taller or what? It's up to a farmer/manager how much crop residue to leave on the ground, GMO or not. If you are talking about "no - till" techniques trading less till for more of poisons, yes, they could increase crop residue during the winter TEMPORARILY because of soil compaction. In a year two they plow "no till" fields with increased "ferocity". Many fields are so compacted and devoid of soil life farmers don't even attempt "no till".
And what form of soil life would process all that increased residue bonanza? Industrial farming soils "boast" dying and greatly simplified biota. Chemical fertilizers and poisons are well known soil life killers. Increasingly what you have under all that triple the amount of crop residue - pulverized lifeless soil sponge absorbing chemical fertilizers and poisons. Sort of hydroponics under open sky. As soon as influx of chemical fertilizers stops, the "improved" fields produce SQUAT, literally. Immediate response. No fertilizers=SQUAT that simple. Compare that to good garden soils that can produce good yields for years without fertilizer inputs.
Some (if not most) of farm ground is improved to the point where you could not find many worms alive, not speaking of the lesser soil creatures.
I know quite a bit about agriculture first hand. What I cannot understand - farmers and rural folks in general who are not alarmed by transforming their areas into lifeless corn and soybean deserts where nothing else can survive. Not only that, they cheer and actively participate in whatever new destructive thing corporations unleash upon land and them. Thanks Zeus for city kids who know little but at least their hearts and minds are in the right place.
And it's not just soils and crops. Modern agriculture destroyed rural America (and not only America) as a unique social organism, soils are not the only thing that is dying. News flash, many heavy agricultural areas are soy bean, corn, human and cultural deserts ALREADY. It's here.
I cheer for industrial organic industry just about the same, or less, as I cheer for the conventional agro.
First and foremost, let's settle one thing: The AGENDA-DRIVEN blogs you cite - provided by THE ORGANIC INDUSTRY are pure unadulterated BS. They have drawn their own conclusions, based on their own pocketbooks, and are going to lie like hell until every gullible person on the planet believes their crap. So don't even bother citing them, because they are a laughingstock!
Second, you obviously did NOT read the article from The Christian Science Monitor. It does NOT say what you THINK it says.
There is anticipated "shortage" of corn at certain price this year only. Livestock "farmers", do you know many of those? Indentured contract growers, that's more like it. Tyson is scrambling its lobbyists, hopefully it will throw a bone to its contract peons too.
In this day and age, "notional" value (trading value of stocks, futures and the rest of the financial derivatives) doesn't really match real value of the underlying goods. Roughly $1 of real value creates $100 of the notional "value" in trades. It's one big casino, and you are not invited to the high roller tables. Unfortunately, once the casino game is over, the last players who stuck with financial instruments on their hands need to get rid of the pesky real goods & commodities. More frequently than not, that means you pay through the nose, supply-demand be damned, since there are no physical bounds to the notional value. It's safe to say that commodity markets lost their minds and purpose, complex derivatives and "supply-demand" simply don't mix.
However, high corn prices this year doesn't deny persistent and deliberate attempts of the US government to undermine ingenious, subsistence based Mexican agriculture using cheap Midwestern corn. It's was true obsession of the US government, republicans or democrats. That's what I noticed, anything subsistence based, not centralized, not on mercy of big corporations and big government regulators annoys the hell out of the US ruling elites. They simply cannot stand it and use all means necessary to destroy it.
"Livestock "farmers", do you know many of those?" Oh I don't know... Would knowing my DAD count? Would knowing half the people in my extended family count?
Let's set aside all your agenda-driven conspiracy theory drivel for just a second here, and answer a question: Why is OLD CROP CORN currently selling for over $8 per bushel?
- I'm assuming that, being a city kid, you don't even know what old crop corn is. So let me help you out: It's corn that has already been harvested, and is "in the bin."
- Keep in mind that corn has already been being marketed at record highs for several years, so this is NOT about "anticipated" shortages.
So again, please tell me why OLD CROP CORN is CURRENTLY selling for over $8.00 per bushel.
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Monsanto - The Demon Among Us
