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Just an observation, but some of the more toxic chemicals provide the best results for the desired application. Painting a garage floor? Use a xylene-based paint for no hot-tire paint-lift (as with latex-based paints, which aren't exactly the safest either). Chlordane rules. There is a reason why they used to use lead-and-oil house paint. Engine-block paint contains lead.
I know this is the green-living forum, but using the right tool (or chemical) for the right job tends to work best, and many of the green-based substitutes are mediocre at best.
JMHO.
Just an observation, but some of the more toxic chemicals provide the best results for the desired application. Painting a garage floor? Use a xylene-based paint for no hot-tire paint-lift (as with latex-based paints, which aren't exactly the safest either). Chlordane rules. There is a reason why they used to use lead-and-oil house paint. Engine-block paint contains lead. I know this is the green-living forum, but using the right tool (or chemical) for the right job tends to work best, and many of the green-based substitutes are mediocre at best.
JMHO.
I didn't know that a thread in the Green Living category could be so entertaining even though it appears to have risen the blood pressure of several members.
I'm sorry that the original poster has had such health issues. If she had worded her original post in a different fashion it wouldn't have gotten such a response from so many. I would figure that almost everybody is allergic to something, somewhere, even model train smoke. She has to do what works for her, even though it might not work for others. I am not sure if fabric softeners will poison everybody, but I have to agree that they have been out there for quite awhile, and yes, I know that tobacco has, too, and now has warnings on the packaging. Are fabric softeners caustic for the original poster? Sure sounds like it. Are they caustic for most others? I doubt it.
I am close to 60 and have a bit of memory loss at times, but hey, I'm not 22 anymore and have had a life with extreme stress and information overload for several decades so it's okay if I can't remember something on occasion. I also get tired at times. I don't blame it on Downy, but maybe I would if I got rashes all over my body.
If somebody makes a blatant statement, you can't blame another person for asking for scientific proof. If somebody could have produced something from the FDA or American Medical Association or Center for Disease Control, (or some such independent research company in Scotland), etc., early on, this thread would have taken on a different tone.
Blogs are of no help, (everybody has an opinion), and most teachers do not allow kids to use wikipedia when they are writing reports because there are a lot of errors in it.
Just an observation, but some of the more toxic chemicals provide the best results for the desired application. Painting a garage floor? Use a xylene-based paint for no hot-tire paint-lift (as with latex-based paints, which aren't exactly the safest either). Chlordane rules. There is a reason why they used to use lead-and-oil house paint. Engine-block paint contains lead.
I know this is the green-living forum, but using the right tool (or chemical) for the right job tends to work best, and many of the green-based substitutes are mediocre at best.
JMHO.
A lot of the more "friendly" stuff is the equiv. of a Model T in development, compared to a Corvette, which is the result of years of further research. It takes time and experience to develop products that work. Eventually, there can be some decent products. A few of the semi-pro cleaning chemicals have reached that level (not going to name names), and I have consistently found simple boron based insecticides fully as effective (given time) as the nerve toxins. The proper tool for a job does work well, but it doesn't always have to be the most toxic or dangerous.
Having used lead-oil housepaint on my grandparents home many summers in childhood, I noted that it had killed plants at the drip-line in its drive to shed its dirt laden skin over fifty years or more. The product was a good one for the period up until the 1950s, but by then a decent latex or alkyd paint that could be washed down required fewer repaints (and the accompanying scraping, chipping, and sanding) and was a better tool. I didn't have to repaint my parents home nearly as often.
I don't buy into overhyped, overpriced "green" inferior products. I find the "green" idea of removing lead from solder and thus making most electronics more short-lived, requiring MORE use of resources and energy to replace them to be asinine idiocy, but when viable alternatives are available that are less toxic or caustic, I find that reasonable and am happy to use them.
As for this beeing a "green" forum, it also has to exist under the general heading of "reality." Your bringing your point forward is not an offense to "greendom" but a reminder that to be successful, those wanting a less toxic world have to rely on more than whining and hype.
I didn't know that a thread in the Green Living category could be so entertaining even though it appears to have risen the blood pressure of several members.
I'm sorry that the original poster has had such health issues. If she had worded her original post in a different fashion it wouldn't have gotten such a response from so many. I would figure that almost everybody is allergic to something, somewhere, even model train smoke. She has to do what works for her, even though it might not work for others. I am not sure if fabric softeners will poison everybody, but I have to agree that they have been out there for quite awhile, and yes, I know that tobacco has, too, and now has warnings on the packaging. Are fabric softeners caustic for the original poster? Sure sounds like it. Are they caustic for most others? I doubt it.
I am close to 60 and have a bit of memory loss at times, but hey, I'm not 22 anymore and have had a life with extreme stress and information overload for several decades so it's okay if I can't remember something on occasion. I also get tired at times. I don't blame it on Downy, but maybe I would if I got rashes all over my body.
If somebody makes a blatant statement, you can't blame another person for asking for scientific proof. If somebody could have produced something from the FDA or American Medical Association or Center for Disease Control, (or some such independent research company in Scotland), etc., early on, this thread would have taken on a different tone.
Blogs are of no help, (everybody has an opinion), and most teachers do not allow kids to use wikipedia when they are writing reports because there are a lot of errors in it.
It did get the response required though. of people discussing the issue, in whatever way they feel.. its important to get the message out about these toxic products being sold in shops to the public, which dont always have ALL the ingredients on the back of the box... I used Fabric Conditioners in this thread as an example, as most people use this.. the list is in fact endless.. As long as it got some people thinking.. about what these things may or do contain, is the most important thing.. excema, asthma and other skin and breathing disorders might be caused by using all these perfumed soap powders, conditioners, please keep in mind that these are on the skin all day and night.. so constantly being ingested into the body. Thank you all, no matter your opinions for contributing to the debate.
It did get the response required though. of people discussing the issue, in whatever way they feel.. its important to get the message out about these toxic products being sold in shops to the public, which dont always have ALL the ingredients on the back of the box... I used Fabric Conditioners in this thread as an example, as most people use this.. the list is in fact endless.. As long as it got some people thinking.. about what these things may or do contain, is the most important thing.. excema, asthma and other skin and breathing disorders might be caused by using all these perfumed soap powders, conditioners, please keep in mind that these are on the skin all day and night.. so constantly being ingested into the body. Thank you all, no matter your opinions for contributing to the debate.
As you have been told many times in this thread, we are empathetic to your extreme reaction to "fabric softener" (which we are still clueless as to which one, is it sheet or liquid and is it a UK or worldwide brand).
But your insistence on labeling it a toxic product with no proof, when only yourself and a small minority of people are affected by it and the verbiage you used above shows that in fact you are just another environmentalist peddling nothing but fear, uncertainty, doubt and BS.
It sounds to me, dizzy, as though the particular product you have tried, is an allergen, and you had an allergic reaction to it. The reaction you describe, is the same as the reaction you can have to the perfumes contained in the product, regardless of whatever else is in it.
Unless both you -and- the product got tested, you won't know what it was that caused the reaction.
That doesn't make these products toxic. It -does- make your posts toxic, however, because you insist on using a term used by scaremongers and conspiracy theorists to scare people. And often, these scaremongers and conspiracy theorists are being paid by "alternative brands" (such as in the supplemental industry) to convince people to switch to -their- brand. They do this, because there's nothing all that spectacular about "their" brand, that would convince anyone to switch to them any other way.
Your posts, also, are almost verbatim from other websites, all saying almost exactly the same thing, using the exact same phrasing, with the sentences in the exact same order. Vomiting a paragraph of someone else's text onto a forum and pretending it's your own, is poor form, it's rude, and it's against TOS. If you have an opinion about something, tell us your opinion. And then cite a source to back up the logic behind your conclusion, if you can.
But claiming that fabric softeners are toxic waste, when people have been using them for over 50 years with NO undue effects other than allergies to perfume - is just pretty silly.
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