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Sorry, I'm not interested in wading through all the negativity and incessant rant, rant, rant against EVs. It certainly isn't convincing me in any way.
One of the details that didn't make it into the original story is that the "gigafactory" Elon Musk envisions includes battery recycling as well as manufacturing.
Of course. Why wouldn't it, if one is actually engaged in forward thinking?
You have a choice, no one forces you to be here.
Envisioning something isn't the same as doing anything. Nor is it the same as planning anything.
What was said about nuclear waste? What was said about industrial solvents?
Indeed, let the visionaries worry about it.
Can you or anyone else explain his vision in any detail past a press release? Lets hear it.
BTW, no one is trying to convince you of anything. Where did that come from?
More than one million EV batteries per year, just to start. What is going to happen to them beyond a promise or vision when the cost to recycle them will quickly make it an economic negative to accomplish. DO we really need to start listing the visions of of so many that went so wrong or is the current state of the environment not sufficient evidence?
Great that Musk has an idea, so does everyone else, a dime a dozen. Now, where is more than talk since those making the promises are the ones that need to put up, not those asking the questions?
One more thing, all opinions are valid, not just the ones you happen to like. If you don't like the comments of certain viewpoints, the simple solution is not to reply to them or read them. Are they hurting you or anyone else? Perhaps different viewpoints or perspectives have added some life to the all agreeing and that creates some tension.
So what?
Musk said he was going to build a factory to mass produce EV batteries. He also said the factory would recycle used EV batteries.
Somehow any question of his visions isn't valid? Since when? Somehow, if Musk says something that is the end of it and there can be no question of his motives, his plans or anything like that?
It is fine if you agree with everything Musk says, that is your right but if you think everyone else needs to do the same, you are mistaken.
I notice that all of your comments about Musk and Tesla are positive. On the same hand, you seem to believe that no one else is entitled to have a differing view. What makes you right and any other comments wrong?
Last edited by Mack Knife; 03-06-2014 at 09:05 AM..
The good news is that we all have a front row seat to the next innovation in propulsion. It will be an interesting ride for sure. History will determine whether Musk's battery plant was a good idea or a bad one.
No matter what I think, it is isn't going to change things one way or the other. I am not high enough up in the food chain in either government or in Musk's staff to make a difference. I suspect that most that are reading this thread are not either, but obviously I don't know.
rant
verb
1.
speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
"she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"
synonyms: fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim
noun
noun: rant; plural noun: rants
1.
a spell of ranting; a tirade.
"his rants against organized religion"
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside
ti·rade
ˈtīˌrād,ˌtīˈrād/Submit
noun
1.
a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation.
"a tirade of abuse"
synonyms: diatribe, harangue, rant, onslaught, attack, polemic, denunciation, broadside, fulmination, condemnation, censure, invective, criticism, tongue-lashing; More
ha·rangue
həˈraNG/Submit
noun
1.
a lengthy and aggressive speech.
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, lecture, polemic, rant, fulmination, broadside, attack, onslaught; More
verb
verb: harangue; 3rd person present: harangues; past tense: harangued; past participle: harangued; gerund or present participle: haranguing
1.
lecture (someone) at length in an aggressive and critical manner.
"the kind of guy who harangued total strangers about PCB levels in whitefish"
synonyms: rant at, hold forth to, lecture, shout at
***
Call it whatever you will, by whichever term you prefer, dominating a discussion with lengthy and aggressive criticism, filled with invective, of a plan you are simply not privy to personally, based on nothing but biased speculation and emotion, is tiresome and ultimately not very useful.
rant
verb
1.
speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
"she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"
synonyms: fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim
noun
noun: rant; plural noun: rants
1.
a spell of ranting; a tirade.
"his rants against organized religion"
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside
ti·rade
ˈtīˌrād,ˌtīˈrād/Submit
noun
1.
a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation.
"a tirade of abuse"
synonyms: diatribe, harangue, rant, onslaught, attack, polemic, denunciation, broadside, fulmination, condemnation, censure, invective, criticism, tongue-lashing; More
ha·rangue
həˈraNG/Submit
noun
1.
a lengthy and aggressive speech.
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, lecture, polemic, rant, fulmination, broadside, attack, onslaught; More
verb
verb: harangue; 3rd person present: harangues; past tense: harangued; past participle: harangued; gerund or present participle: haranguing
1.
lecture (someone) at length in an aggressive and critical manner.
"the kind of guy who harangued total strangers about PCB levels in whitefish"
synonyms: rant at, hold forth to, lecture, shout at
***
Call it whatever you will, by whichever term you prefer, dominating a discussion with lengthy and aggressive criticism, filled with invective, of a plan you are simply not privy to personally, based on nothing but biased speculation and emotion, is tiresome and ultimately not very useful.
To get back on topic, although it will likely be six months or more before a site for the Tesla Gigafactory is chosen, it's interesting to look at the swirling speculation which has arisen about the four states listed as "likely," one that wasn't mentioned, and the one that was crossed off the list of contenders to begin with.
To begin with the last, an article in yesterday's L.A. Times made it clear that the one state which has been completely out of the running from the beginning is California. Not that the state didn't make a play for the project, but Tesla seems intent on diversifying their geographical base, not to mention spreading their regulatory and tax exposure around.
Of those listed as "likely" - Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas - my best personal guess is that Nevada has the clear lead. It has an abundance of the undeveloped, cheap land that this huge project would entail, it's closest to the Fremont, California car assembly plant, and it possesses good rail infrastructure for bringing in raw materials and for shipping finished batteries to the assembly line. Nevada has attractive tax and regulatory structures for a large business venture like this, and the state is hungry for the kind of economic diversification this would offer. They seem ready to make a major play for the $5 Billion project and the 6,500 new jobs it will create.
New Mexico is in many ways a strong contender, but I don't know how hungry they are for Tesla's business, so I'd rank them at #2. There's a certain amount of resistance bubbling up to offering a big incentive package or putting much effort into the bid, which traces back to 2008 when Albuquerque was a leading contender for the Tesla assembly plant, many thought it was THE contender, and some felt betrayed when the Fremont site was selected instead.
Texas is in many ways a strong contender, and Austin is all a-twitter about the possibility of snagging another high visibility tech business, although finding that much cheap land would almost certain require the factory to be at some distance from the city. And Texas has a severe handicap in this race... state law prohibits Tesla from selling their cars in the state, because Tesla doesn't franchise its dealerships, and Texas doesn't allow manufacturers to sell direct. For this reason I feel Texas is included simply for the competitive fight they'll provide.
I think Arizona's chances are nil at this point, due to its recent highly contentious conflict over gay rights. Sophisticated liberal high-tech Californians have little stomach for that kind of ultra-conservative political atmosphere, so I think any bid Arizona may make is already dead in the water.
The dark horse in this race may be Colorado. Although not on the announced shortlist, local boosters are talking up the chances of making a run for it. The possibility of restarting their mothballed Lithium mine has some appeal, although there isn't actually a lot of Lithium used in these batteries, and both China and South America are currently producing Lithium at prices the Colorado mine can't match. But who can blame them for dreaming, eh? Especially after the recent you-know-what at the you-know-where.
And do I agree with the last paragraph of the article:
Next steps
If Tesla aims to produce a mass-market electric car in three years, it knows it will need to accelerate the rate at which it drives down the cost of producing one. A massive, multibillion-dollar factory that unifies the disparate steps in manufacturing lithium-ion batteries is a step toward that. Will the economics make sense? Like Tesla itself, we'll only find out in time.
Latest article with a hypothesis on what and where the new plant will be:
It didn't seem to me they had anything new to contribute to the story, except that the railroad map is informative. But I think they overlooked the obvious, which is... "Hey, look how close Reno is to the Fremont assembly plant!"
The rendering is from the press release, and visually represents how huge an undertaking this is. Even the wind and solar energy sourcing for the factory's needs will be substantial in size.
I like the diagram below it on the Tesla site, showing the planned Gigafactory Process Flow for the new plant, which includes an End of Life cycle (Lifetime Usage) for the battery packs, and the integral Battery Pack Recycling process closing the loop back to the beginning.
I do believe I read Mr. Knife's comments on the idea of connecting two rounded stones with a wood pole. The whole thing was and is call a "wheel and axle".
Mr. Musk is why society rarely lets a creative genius get anywhere near real money. They change things.
Re: My earlier comments ranking the four "likely" candidate states as I see their chances for securing the project. I previously ranked Arizona as 4 out of 4. Based on the article I just read, I'd like to revise that to #5 out of 4.
Until I read the news about NJ becoming the 3rd state to ban Tesla's direct sales model, and requiring them to sell through franchised local dealers, I was not aware that Arizona also bans manufacturer-direct sales of autos, like Texas does. OK, now that the #4 position has been vacated, I'll move Texas down to #4, leaving the #3 position empty.
Seriously, why would Tesla want to make such a huge investment in a state that won't allow their product to be sold?
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Whatever.
