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The cleanest option is to walk. Or ride a bike. Or use our already existing electrified vehicles that can carry hundreds of people each.
But as far as cars go, battery vehicles are infinitely better than gasoline or diesel.
Mack Knife is being purposely obtuse, so I'll ignore him except to respond the horrifying specter of recycling nontoxic li-ion batteries is trivial compared to the current problems with extracting and refining petroleum, transporting this highly volatile and flammable material, burning it in mass quantities in our cities, the regularly replaced engine lubrication oil, the lead batteries, etc, etc. Go visit Beijing for a day and tell me they're better off with gas.
Gasoline isn't causing most of China's air quality problems. Industrial gases, coal and oil burning is and guess why that is?
Anyone?
They are busy manufacturing solar panels, lithium batteries and all kinds of "green" exports and have forsaken their own environment to do it.
They are making those nifty electronic gadgets that Open D says come to him in green packaging yet the very products themselves are causing major pollution problems resulting from their manufacture.
All this talk about a battery factory being green and no one can figure out how to recycle a plastic bag. The hypocrisy is everywhere.
Gasoline isn't causing most of China's air quality problems. Industrial gases, coal and oil burning is and guess why that is?
Anyone?
They are busy manufacturing solar panels, lithium batteries and all kinds of "green" exports and have forsaken their own environment to do it.
They are making those nifty electronic gadgets that Open D says come to him in green packaging yet the very products themselves are causing major pollution problems resulting from their manufacture.
All this talk about a battery factory being green and no one can figure out how to recycle a plastic bag. The hypocrisy is everywhere.
Wrong it is from ordinary industry not green industry. We can recycle plastic bags. China's smog in it's cities is from the cars. It's from the coal fired plants that provide electricity.
Guess what solar panel production is not the cause of China's pollution. It's all the regular industry such as making ipads, cheap watches and other doo dads. Rather then make the products in the US where the factories have higher environmental standards and hence lower pollution American companies decided to do it in China.
I have a question on a theory. Does anyone think that if you could snap your fingers and make every car in China electric it wouldn't make a difference? (I know this couldn't happen and it reality it would take years and years to get every vehicle to electric assuming that tomorrow you could even make enough)
I guess that the added demand for electricity would come from coal fired electric plants - so it wouldn't be as good as if the power was coming from a cleaner technology. Although maybe then China would be able to make the coal fired plants cleaner while they develop ways to create power even cleaner.
My other thought was that they should have cars that clean the air when they are running... I am curious as to what happens now that China cares about its air quality.
I have a question on a theory. Does anyone think that if you could snap your fingers and make every car in China electric it wouldn't make a difference? (I know this couldn't happen and it reality it would take years and years to get every vehicle to electric assuming that tomorrow you could even make enough)
Obviously you are clueless as to why China's pollution is so bad. The number of vehicles has little to do with their pollution:
China is the world's largest market for cars and it's so many cars in certain areas that the traffic jams last for several days. So yeah the rapid expansion of industry and cars etc in China is a huge problem.
Reading this thread tells me so many minds are wound up over imaginary stuff there is a cranial vortex taking place. If all of these wayward neurons could be put to use manufacturing power it would be a good thing.
Earth has been here how long? How much has the earth survived and is still here spinning around the sun in grand fashion. Earth has been devastated by meteur strikes, plate shifts that formed the continents we know today, polar shifts and anything else thrown at it.
Man has been on the planet how long? Do people actually believe a colony of short lived creatures - in earth age standards - is really going to devastate it now? When man disappears the earth will grow over whatever we did or left behind and sally forth. There will be no trace of mankind ages from now and earth will heal itself. It has for millions of years.
Every element/substance/chemical that supposedly pollutes the planet came from the ground and will return there. Oil isn't dinosaurs and plant matter - fossil fuel. Think of how many animals and plants would have had to be herded underground - ark style - to account for the amount of oil taken out of the ground. It is impossible. There are several studies which suggest so and I had this thought when in HS decades ago. You can google it.
All of the greenie stuff is much ado about nothing.
Oil isn't dinosaurs and plant matter - fossil fuel. Think of how many animals and plants would have had to be herded underground - ark style - to account for the amount of oil taken out of the ground. It is impossible. There are several studies which suggest so and I had this thought when in HS decades ago. You can google it.
This is the classic clash between real science and pseudo science.
Real science is an organized search for truth, which has standards for rigorous research and confirmation by others that have been followed in showing not only that coal, oil, and natural gas are products of millions of years of natural processes to produce them, but also has demonstrated how those processes work, as well as producing evidence to show why these findings are correct.
Pseudoscience, on the other hand, is typically a search for proof of a belief that runs counter to mainstream science. In this regard, it could be said that real science is rational, while pseudo science is irrational. The theory that oil is being continuously produced deep in the earth... complete with the fossilized remains of prehistoric organisms that are found in oil... holds no weight with mainstream science and produces no credible evidence. It is not a rational explanation of where fossil fuels come from.
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All of the greenie stuff is much ado about nothing.
As pointed out in the special rules for this forum, and posted in the Sticky at the top of the forum, this is not the place to debate whether or not ecologically sensitive, i.e. "Green" concerns are real.
If we don't get a handle on our GHG emissions, life on this planet will suffer tremendously. Emissions from burning fossil fuels for electricity and transportation are "low hanging fruit" that can be greatly reduced with minimal disruption. Battery powered vehicles such as the Tesla are not a panacea, but are critical technology for improving transportation emissions. Longer term we need to think about root sustainability of transportation, and what changes to land use need to be made.
I picked this article because Beijing is a microcosm of the pollution issues in China.
Ummm. Read the site you linked. 22% of the pollution is caused by vehicles. My question was if you removed all the gas burning vehicles would it not make a difference? NOT would it solve the problem.
The reason it is worse in China in the US despite China having a lower number of vehicle overall is also in the article, no pollution control standards and very low grade gasoline with a high sulfur content.
And I doubt that those 100 million vehicles are evenly spread throughout the country. Wouldn't it make sense that they would only be in Cities with roads?
Ummm. Read the site you linked. 22% of the pollution is caused by vehicles. My question was if you removed all the gas burning vehicles would it not make a difference? NOT would it solve the problem.
The reason it is worse in China in the US despite China having a lower number of vehicle overall is also in the article, no pollution control standards and very low grade gasoline with a high sulfur content.
And I doubt that those 100 million vehicles are evenly spread throughout the country. Wouldn't it make sense that they would only be in Cities with roads?
Only the cities in China have roads? Oh that makes almost nonsense.
The groupthink continues. China had bad pollution problems before cars became easier to afford there.
The rivers aren't polluted because of exhaust emissions. The ground isn't polluted because of exhaust emissions.
Ever been to China? I bet not. If you'd ever been there you know where the air pollution comes from, industries which are busy making all those "green" things, you know, electronics that get shipped in biodegradable packaging, things like that where the gullible get their package delivered via air freight and a diesel burning truck in the USA but what the heck, so long as the package isn't a plastic blister pack right? Solar panels where high concentrations of solvents are used with very little control over how it is disposed. Coal burning electric generation plants in a country that produces more solar panels than any other on earth.
Once detached from the umbilical cord of groupthink people see things for what they are, not what studies tell you they are.
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