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There's a difference between animals killing each other and humans raising millions (billions?) of livestock for consumption. There is a natural balance in nature but a balance when humans are involved is rare (at least not in our country IMO). We have the tendency to over-extend, over-use, pollute, over consume (we are a nation of overweight/obese people after all - we can't help but eat A LOT of everything). But we have a right to do what we want... to get what we want after all... (sarcasm intended).
Is our love for meat so powerful that we are reluctant to question the methods of producing it? Now, I don't know what most people's definition of "green" is but, I don't see how raising cattle in feed lots, pumping them with antibiotics (to prevent ulcers), and feeding them genetically modified corn (sprayed w/ god knows what) to make them obese is anything close to green. If we eat the meat that comes from these sources then we are a part of it... we are involved in the process. Are we not?
Last edited by mommabear2; 04-25-2008 at 12:23 PM..
Reason: clarity/typo
Animals kill other animals, in much harsher ways than we use (wolves for example are pretty cruel killers, amazing hunters, but still rather cruel). Humans are (or were originally anyways, many in the developed world don't live as such) a part of the natural food chain, as omnivores.
Granted if I personally had a choice between being killed harshly or more gently, I'd choose the gentle option. Nonetheless, I'd still be dead either way. Same deal for the animals!
arctichomesteader wrote:
I think people have gotten too detached from the natural world and their proper role in it,
While I agree with you that people have gotten too detached from the natural world, it seems really arrogant to assume that the proper role of humans is to KILL animals. I also fail to understand how KILLING animals will bring us into better alignment with the natural world. It seems more proper that we would appoint ourselves as their caretakers rather than appointing ourselves as their executioners.
At one time in my life I had a dream that was somewhat similar to yours in that I had a strong desire to homestead in the wilds of Alaska or British Columbia. When it got down to the reality of having to KILL animals for my survival, I put that dream into permanent retirement. Instead I decided to live with a back to the land group for a few years. As a community, we grew most of our own food. For whatever reason, GROWING food just made more sense to me than KILLING animals. It intrinsically seemed like the best possible way to live in harmony with the natural world. But that's just me. You're a different person. Ultimately we all do whatever our hearts are guiding us to do. Best wishes with your endeavour. If you are successful, at least you will be doing your own KILLING rather than having someone else do the dirty work for you. If everyone who ate meat would do their own KILLING, far fewer animals would ever be KILLED, and this planet would be a less violent and much GREENER place to live.
Last edited by CosmicWizard; 04-25-2008 at 12:26 PM..
Growing crops isn't really living in harmony with the natural world any more than growing animals for food is, or any less. Neither is using electricity to post on the internet, for that matter.
Growing crops isn't really living in harmony with the natural world any more than growing animals for food is, or any less. Neither is using electricity to post on the internet, for that matter.
No. Neither is driving a car or living in a 2000 sq ft house... but we can do what we can to reduce intake/damage to our environment. That's the point of green living. It's not all or nothing but we can - at the very least - reduce.
Adequate open space exists that was cleared by nature. People want to live where THEY want to live rather than conform to the natural symbiotics of the planet. If man thinks he is so much in control of nature, then why can't the best trained climatologist predict a rainstorm without fail? My guess is if their 'guess' was so special why aren't they capitalizing on their sorcery by winning every lottery by the same numbers they use to voodoo con all the ignorant non-specialists?
MAN is most an animal when he wages war on his fellows. He is more of an animal in this because he smothers the impulse to show mercy because of the vain fiction of 'duty'.
Reduce, reuse, recycle. Cows are pretty green considering that they convert grain and grass into 1200 pounds of very useful stuff that the grass and grains themselves can't provide.
Cows are a heck of a lot more than just meat. The list below is pretty amazing, and it doesn't even include tanning the hide for leather.
For example, the lungs and the cow mucosa are used to make heparin - an anti-coagulant drug. Steroid drugs are made from the adrenal glands. The pancreas gives us insulin. The cow's placenta gives us cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. The dura mater is used in human brain surgery as an implant. The dividing septum in the nose of the cow gives us chondroitin sulphate, which is used to treat arthritis. The blood gives us adhesives for plywood, as well as chemicals in foam fire extinguishers, and fertilisers.
The bone and fat are used to make tallow, which is then used to make fatty acids, which then gives us brake fluid and lubricants for jet engines. The fat from the meat bone, hooves and horns gives us edible tallow which is used in chewing gum, and as shortening in baked goods. But the tallow also gives us inedible fats and oils which in turn are used to make synthetic motor oils, antibiotics, food packaging, acne medication, detergents, water proofing agents, and of course glycerine. Now glycerine is used to make a whole range of pharmaceuticals from cough drops to ear drops, as well as inks, anti-freeze mixtures, car paint polishes, and hair and scalp conditioners.
The collagen which comes from the cows' connective tissue and skin is used to make many biomedical products such as corneal shields, injectable collagen for incontinence treatments, meat casings for sausages as well as food additives and antibiotic wound dressings. And of course the collagen can be used to make gelatin which gives us many food uses such as powdered gelatin and instant jelly, as well as uses in cosmetics, photographic uses and health pharmaceutical products.
The article I cited is about the economic problems caused by mad cow disease and how it will affect far more than the supply of beef.
If you are successful, at least you will be doing your own KILLING rather than having someone else do the dirty work for you. If everyone who ate meat would do their own KILLING, far fewer animals would ever be KILLED, and this planet would be a less violent and much GREENER place to live.
Hey Redneck.....
When your garden is invaded by rodents because you're opposed to KILLING, I'll be happy to wander out behind your house and slaughter any pesky cottontail bunny rabbits that are eating your food.
Cute little bunnies are my favorite. They taste even better than chicken!
Last edited by sterlinggirl; 04-25-2008 at 01:08 PM..
Reason: added quote
newageredneck - you make me want to be a vegetarian
I assure you that it's not me making you want to be a vegetarian, but rather your own common sense coming thru loud and clear. I'm absolutely powerless, and I have no desire, to make anyone do anything that doesn't ring true for them.
mommabear2 wrote:
It's not all or nothing but we can - at the very least - reduce.
That's the crux of the matter in 13 well spoken words.
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(sarcasm intended).
