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Time to put it in a museum and talk about it from a history perspective.
I'm actually OK if it goes.. Moreso in that it seems more 'natural' that it's being discussed to be removed now than back in 2000 when it was basically just threats from the NAACP and boycotts trying to get it taken down.
However.. To your point.. Isn't that where it is now? It was removed from the dome and placed at a memorial to Confederate Soldiers.. Which is an absolutely appropriate place for it to be flown. The issue being that the memorial is on state house grounds means nothing, unless you're also saying that memorial should be removed from the state house grounds. We're memorializing those soldiers.. Not specifically what they fought for in terms of slavery.. But certainly in that they were fighting for their country, and our state. And that flag is the flag that they fought under and fought for.
Why should we have a memorial that is there to memorialize only members of one race? Aren't we all Americans?
I understand that to some the flag stands for "hate" because that's all they were ever taught and no one (especially the public schools) ever taught its entire meaning. But to many, it has absolutely nothing to do with hate, so why do the people that are offended get preferential treatment?
The southern states wanted the same thing that the original 13 colonies wanted in 1776 and that was the right to self-governance. Slavery would eventually go away in the south even if the south had won the war, but the southern states wanted the right to deal with it on their own terms, just like the northern states were allowed to do. The Civil war was not started over slavery. Lincoln did not free the slaves until two years into the war. In 1861 Lincoln was asked "why not let the South go in peace?" He replied by saying "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" So the emancipation proclamation was a cheap trick to divide the south - not because Lincoln cared about slaves.
And the weird thing is, the south gets slammed by northerners all the time for how "backwards and racist we are" yet from what I've seen, race relations in the south are 10x better than they are in lily white northern states like Vermont, Connecticut, and Maine.
The southern states wanted the same thing that the original 13 colonies wanted in 1776 and that was the right to self-governance. Slavery would eventually go away in the south even if the south had won the war, but the southern states wanted the right to deal with it on their own terms, just like the northern states were allowed to do. The Civil war was not started over slavery.
Alexander H. Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America during the American Civil War wrote on March 21st 1861 - roughly 3 weeks before confederate soldiers fired on Fort Sumpter a speech known as the "Cornerstone Speech" in which he said amongst other things:
"But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics."
Whenever I listen to a commercial for Biltmore Estate - "There was such a time... this morning at Biltmore... back when we had slaves do all the work" (last part only plays in my mind)
Anyway, it kinda angered me the last time we talked about flag removal but as I have come to realize that some people don't see it the same way I do, I now say take it down. My biggest concern with this is that I fear that EVERY redneck in the south will display their own flag and there will be more flags displayed across the south than anyone even thought possible. That will then bring a movement to make flag display illegal and there goes my logo....
It's okay if individuals chose to fly at their residence. Their right to self-identify is protected, and it is a good chance that folks who are offended by the flag would not be regular guests of these folks anyway.
Alexander H. Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America during the American Civil War wrote on March 21st 1861 - roughly 3 weeks before confederate soldiers fired on Fort Sumpter a speech known as the "Cornerstone Speech" in which he said amongst other things:
"But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics."
And the weird thing is, the south gets slammed by northerners all the time for how "backwards and racist we are" yet from what I've seen, race relations in the south are 10x better than they are in lily white northern states like Vermont, Connecticut, and Maine.
Please tell me more about how race relations in Connecticut are 10x worse than the South. The only racists I've met are from backwards rural areas -- only a small percentage of our population is rural, and only a fraction of those are racist. Guess what flag they love to wave around though?
Why should we have a memorial that is there to memorialize only members of one race? Aren't we all Americans?
I understand that to some the flag stands for "hate" because that's all they were ever taught and no one (especially the public schools) ever taught its entire meaning. But to many, it has absolutely nothing to do with hate, so why do the people that are offended get preferential treatment?
The southern states wanted the same thing that the original 13 colonies wanted in 1776 and that was the right to self-governance. Slavery would eventually go away in the south even if the south had won the war, but the southern states wanted the right to deal with it on their own terms, just like the northern states were allowed to do. The Civil war was not started over slavery. Lincoln did not free the slaves until two years into the war. In 1861 Lincoln was asked "why not let the South go in peace?" He replied by saying "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" So the emancipation proclamation was a cheap trick to divide the south - not because Lincoln cared about slaves.
And the weird thing is, the south gets slammed by northerners all the time for how "backwards and racist we are" yet from what I've seen, race relations in the south are 10x better than they are in lily white northern states like Vermont, Connecticut, and Maine.
Yes we all are Americans but, all of us are not descendents of SLAVES.
I think a lot of people have hatred toward our Southern ancestors and are expressing that hatred by bullying our Southern Heritage Symbols. You get the feeling they would like to wipe us off the face of the earth so they can have what we have built for ourselves. Common jealousy. The same jealousy of our abundance that started the Civil War. Pure Greed in Action.
I guess people in the South are supposed to bow our heads in shame and disown our ancestors who did their duty for their state and fought for their families. Cannot you see how insensitive you who wants everything about our southern heritage destroyed are being to those who had family killed in the war. Black people got freedom but I think that both blacks and ignorant people from other states who evidently do not realize their ancestors were not perfect either want to stomp on us once again.
I will pray for you because if that flag is so offensive to you; you are badly in need of help.
Please tell me more about how race relations in Connecticut are 10x worse than the South. The only racists I've met are from backwards rural areas -- only a small percentage of our population is rural, and only a fraction of those are racist. Guess what flag they love to wave around though?
Well, Connecticut is 11% black vs SC which is 27%..
But there have been several publicized incidents that, rightly or wrongly were called racism..
Here.. There is the Redneck Shop in Laurens. And.. That's just such a screwed up situation with the black church that owns the building and can't evict the shop owner that it's almost comical.
I would agree that racism doesn't draw as much attention in the north because there's just such a small population. I was in Nashua, New Hampshire 15 years ago or so, and the business owners I was meeting up there pointed out "Ooh, look, a black guy!".. It apparently was a rare thing to see. And, since the population of NH is only 1.5% black.. It probably was.
And.. I'm sure that those were not the only racists that you met. They were only the ones that you knew about. I'm sure you've met far more racists that you don't know about.
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