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A shotgun is a fairly good home defense gun for a number of reasons. First, if a threatening intruder has entered your house, and you've woken from a sound sleep to defend the lives of your family, you're likely going to be relatively shaky and 'out of it'. The shotgun gives you some 'wiggle room' should you not be 100% accurate. It's true that, in terms of a general QCB, the shotgun is less desirable because of its long, awkward barrel, but you shouldn't be trying to clear your house anyway...you should set up a defensive location and aim in the direction that the intruder might approach from (typically a hallway) while waiting for the police to arrive.
I have to object to some posters saying that you shouldn't shoot to kill. Never point a firearm at somebody unless you intend to shoot them, and if you intend to shoot them, assume that you are going to kill them. You're almost certainly not a good enough marksmen to deliberately wound somebody, especially after waking up in the middle of the night from a sound sleep (and this isn't the best tactic, anyway). Also, if you seriously wound someone in your home, consider that they know where you live, they know who you are, and they will get out of prison sooner or later (and even if they don't, under our current bat****-crazy law system, they can sue you). That's not something I want to think about every day. Don't take chances with the lives of you or your family.
Finally, if you keep a firearm in your home, teach firearm safety to your entire family. Make sure everybody is comfortable around guns, and show your children that guns are powerful tools that command respect, and, like all tools, are not things to be feared or loved. They serve a distinct purpose, and that is to kill. Never forget this. Sometimes, in very special situations, it is incumbent upon an individual to take the life of another, for just purposes. Don't relish this fact, and don't dread it, just accept it. I've been around guns since I was very young, and I'm a better person for it. I have a healthy respect/appreciation for firearms, and would never aim one at a person unless I intend to end their life. My father taught me long ago that, to shoot at someone is to kill them. Guns grant you great power, but with great power comes great responsibility.
A shotgun is a fairly good home defense gun for a number of reasons. First, if a threatening intruder has entered your house, and you've woken from a sound sleep to defend the lives of your family, you're likely going to be relatively shaky and 'out of it'. The shotgun gives you some 'wiggle room' should you not be 100% accurate.
Just remember that the key word is "some." Some folks think you can't miss with a shotgun-sure, maybe if the guy is 20 yards away and you've got an 18" spread, but as the Guns and Ammo article points out, in a home defense situation, 10 yards is a long shot. Most shots are going to be 4-5 yards. At that distance you're talking about maybe a spread of 4" with an 18" barrel, modified choke, and 00 buck. Also, to touch on the subject of being "out of it" and "shaky," a weapon light should be considered a must on ANY home defense weapon-I don't care what it is. First, it will obscure the intruder's vision should they try to shoot at you, and second, you can be 100% sure of what and who you are shooting at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k
It's true that, in terms of a general QCB, the shotgun is less desirable because of its long, awkward barrel, but you shouldn't be trying to clear your house anyway...you should set up a defensive location and aim in the direction that the intruder might approach from (typically a hallway) while waiting for the police to arrive.
I totally agree about not clearing the house. It's a dicey job even for the professionals. However, this is when home design comes into play. Waiting in a defensive position for the police to arrive, gun trained on the only entry point(s) to the room is fine, but that means that all occupants of the house have to be in the room or able to get there. The moral of the story is locate all bedrooms on one floor. With regard to the shotgun being unwieldy, 26" is the minimum legal limit for the total length which is at least 10" less than the width of the average hallway and 2" less than the average interior doorway. Certainly not as maneuverable as a handgun, but not as bad as a deer gun with a 30" barrel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k
I have to object to some posters saying that you shouldn't shoot to kill. Never point a firearm at somebody unless you intend to shoot them, and if you intend to shoot them, assume that you are going to kill them. You're almost certainly not a good enough marksmen to deliberately wound somebody, especially after waking up in the middle of the night from a sound sleep (and this isn't the best tactic, anyway). Also, if you seriously wound someone in your home, consider that they know where you live, they know who you are, and they will get out of prison sooner or later (and even if they don't, under our current bat****-crazy law system, they can sue you). That's not something I want to think about every day. Don't take chances with the lives of you or your family.
Amen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k
Finally, if you keep a firearm in your home, teach firearm safety to your entire family. Make sure everybody is comfortable around guns, and show your children that guns are powerful tools that command respect, and, like all tools, are not things to be feared or loved. They serve a distinct purpose, and that is to kill. Never forget this. Sometimes, in very special situations, it is incumbent upon an individual to take the life of another, for just purposes. Don't relish this fact, and don't dread it, just accept it. I've been around guns since I was very young, and I'm a better person for it. I have a healthy respect/appreciation for firearms, and would never aim one at a person unless I intend to end their life. My father taught me long ago that, to shoot at someone is to kill them. Guns grant you great power, but with great power comes great responsibility.
That's a great way to put it. I think all too often discussions such as these are taken over by those with "BBIB" (Big Brass Internet Balls) who start going on and on about how they could take someone's life like flicking off a switch for stealing their newspaper. Furthermore, gun safety is of course key, but I wonder what others thoughts are on this. When I was a kid I was never allowed to have toy guns. However, I was also taught about guns from a very young age and began to handle guns and shoot at age 10. I had a conversation about this with a fellow hunter who was lamenting the fact that kids don't play with toy guns anymore because the "libs" make such a stink about them. When I explained to him that my father's reasoning was that it should be established that guns are not toys and toys are not guns, he at least saw my point. Basically, I think that by allowing a child to have a toy gun, cap gun, etc...that he or she can point at people at will and pull the trigger along with having a gun in the house, you're taking a risk. Children are children and the permanence of what a gun can do is complex for them to understand. Therefore I don't believe that if you want a child to truly understand gun safety, you cannot allow them to play with toy guns.
I have to object to some posters saying that you shouldn't shoot to kill. Never point a firearm at somebody unless you intend to shoot them, and if you intend to shoot them, assume that you are going to kill them. You're almost certainly not a good enough marksmen to deliberately wound somebody, especially after waking up in the middle of the night from a sound sleep (and this isn't the best tactic, anyway). Also, if you seriously wound someone in your home, consider that they know where you live, they know who you are, and they will get out of prison sooner or later (and even if they don't, under our current bat****-crazy law system, they can sue you). That's not something I want to think about every day. Don't take chances with the lives of you or your family.
Quite true. I knew an ex Sheriff and he would laugh at how people believed the movies and thought you could intentionally wound someone with ease or shoot the gun out of their hand.
He said he shot a perp who was drawing on him in the hand once. And it was pure luck,
For home defense a 12 gauge 870 Pump is hard to beat. Buy one with as short a barrel as possible and with a modified or open choke. Take it to the range and learn how to handle it. Find someone who does reloading and try various loads.
Double O buck is not what you want to use in a house. In the 870, if the plug is removed, you can load five rounds in the magazine. In mine, that I use for home defense, I always make sure the first round is loaded with Rock Salt. This is not available commercially, hence the reason I suggested getting to know some reloaders. Rock Salt can be lethal when the target is within a few feet. However from a distance of more than five or six feet it will usually not penetrate the typical drywall walls in a home. This is based on my own observations from testing I did many years ago. Test it on the range for yourself to see what kind of penetration different loads have. If you hit an intruder in the face or anywhere where there is bare skin the rock salt is going to sting like HELL. Remember though permanant blindness is probably going to result if someone gets hit in the face. However if you are justified in using lethal force that is not an issue.
Remember anything in a 12 gauge is going to be lethal within a few feet. Even "BLANKS" can kill when fired at someone who is close.
Various loads have different lethal ranges. The following are just my estimates and will vary from one weapon to another.. Do Not depend on them for the absolute numbers.
Slugs are lethal out to several hundred yards.
OO buck are lethal to a couple hundred yards.
BB loads proably out to 100 yards
#4, #5 shot can be lethal past 100 yards but not much farther.
#7,#8 probably not lethal past 60 yards.
#9 probably not lethal past 50 yards.
Do your own testing and develop your own strategy for various defense situations you may encounter. After you learn how to handle your weapon practice with it several times a year. If you go to a local trap or skeet range and get proper instruction you will soon become proficient and safe.
Good luck and I hope you never have to use your weapon for anything but fun.
Quite true. I knew an ex Sheriff and he would laugh at how people believed the movies and thought you could intentionally wound someone with ease or shoot the gun out of their hand.
He said he shot a perp who was drawing on him in the hand once. And it was pure luck,
I believe you both are missing the point. I am in no way advocating trying to "wing him" or shoot a wounding shot.
What I am emphatically stating is that if you're in the mindset of "shoot to kill", you should just plan on losing your house, your cars, your savings, and everything you have. Mass Ayoob and other experts won't touch your case with a 10-foot pole when you throw around this term.
You shoot to stop a threat. Is the guy going to likely die? Sure. Should you shoot in the part of their body that will incapacitate them the fastest (center mass, cortex)? Sure. But you're not overtly executing the person. You shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.
I get a kick out of people who think that just because you kill the burglar, that you're not going to be sued. EVERYONE has family, and EVERYONE will sue you for shooting their kin. We had an incident where we took a life in the line of duty, and TWO years later we got sued by eight relatives who finally figured out that this transient had been in an incident with the police and was no longer alive. We had been cleared by Internal Affairs and the DA's office, but we still got sued, and the department paid out a huge settlement. And this for a guy who was trying to kill someone WITH A WEAPON when we got into the fray.
I do not believe that you are in ANY way compromising your safety by not focusing on taking a life, rather stopping an advancing threat with lethal force in the face of a felonious intrusion and clear and present danger of assault likely to produce great bodily injury to you or yours. The guy is still likely to die, but you're about 10x more likely to keep your home, your cars, and your savings account. Think about it...you may say I'm arguing semantics...I'm saying that even these posts on CDF can be brought into court if they discover your identity and be used against you to show you intended to "execute homie who was only trying to steal your TV to feed his 8 kids".
People...don't just be prepared for a violent encounter. Be prepared AND be smart legally. It's not that big an extra step to be prepared to protect yourselves AFTER the shooting incident as well.
I get a kick out of people who think that just because you kill the burglar, that you're not going to be sued. EVERYONE has family, and EVERYONE will sue you for shooting their kin. We had an incident where we took a life in the line of duty, and TWO years later we got sued by eight relatives who finally figured out that this transient had been in an incident with the police and was no longer alive. We had been cleared by Internal Affairs and the DA's office, but we still got sued, and the department paid out a huge settlement. And this for a guy who was trying to kill someone WITH A WEAPON when we got into the fray.
Minnesota has a statute that protects victims from being sued by criminals or their surviving families if the criminal is wounded or killed by the victim during commission of a criminal act.
...A perpetrator assumes the risk of loss, injury, or death resulting from or arising out of a course of criminal conduct involving a violent crime, as defined in this section, engaged in by the perpetrator or an accomplice, as defined in section 609.05, and the crime victim is immune from and not liable for any civil damages as a result of acts or omissions of the victim if the victim used reasonable force as authorized in section 609.06 or 609.065. ...
Looks like the legislators did a great job on this one...
And , run some searches on "discovery" , and , "discoverable".
See what is and is not protected communication in your state...
Or not.
It's up to you.
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