Homelessness rising in Hawaii (fit in, credit, how much)

[jeffington]

Originally Posted by Razzbar

"... that among these are life, liberty, ... ". Get it? Those are just given as examples. As civilization advances, we recognize more rights.

The thing "rugged individualists" don't understand about "socialism" is that there money comes from other people. It is only possible to become prosperous when you have a system that makes it possible in the first place. You don't "make" your money all by yourself. You exchange the products of your labor with people who are able to pay you.

Bill Gates recognizes where his money came from. Too many people fail to see that their money came from ... "other people"... a concept that seems to be harder and harder for people to grasp.

No man is an island. When everybody around you is living in wretchedness, you are too. We depend on one another to create opportunities for us. If nobody has a dime for an apple, nobody's going to make much money selling apples.

I can't see why socialism is perceived as such an evil thing. Are people really that blind to the fundamental fact that our well being is a matter of the well being of others? Some people just can't seem to understand that it isn't "all about meeee".

I'm not going to bother addressing the usual slippery slope and straw dog arguments.

If all you have to offer is the above pablum, then you might as well not post at all, since it is all just one big pantload of Bravo Sierra.

[Calico Salsa]

Originally Posted by Cebucats

Would any of you, if you were in the position, provide a job to a homeless person, provided they had the skills you needed??
Think about it; they don't have clean clothes, enough money to barely live (eat, wash, etc.) and mostly don't have a phone for you to contact them at for that job.
Some other folks say "Only by the grace of God go I". If we are made in the likeness of a God then where is our compassion, kindness, caring??
What goes around does come around ... someday.
Maybe not until at the end...

I would give my shirt off my back for anyone who needed it more than me, and I have, and others have done it for me. Not for the glory or any other reason than we each were human and in need.

You're welcome...

Of course. We've paid men who helped with landscaping, painting, or other labor when we couldn't do it ourselves. The ones we hired had clean clothes and stayed sober long enough to finish the work. The ones we had to let go mid-job were the ones hiding beer cans behind the toilet or bushes. We've fed people, given clothing, given cash.

What has that to do with whether I think it wise to allow homeless camps in public parks or beaches? Even though a parent might love their child, they wouldn't allow them any action, especially when it affects others. Each of us must consider not only how we can help other individuals, but how we impact the entire community. Feed a person, help build a shelter, vote for what you believe, and... be willing to take a tough stand when it is necessary.

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by Razzbar

"... that among these are life, liberty, ... ". Get it? Those are just given as examples. As civilization advances, we recognize more rights.

The thing "rugged individualists" don't understand about "socialism" is that there money comes from other people. It is only possible to become prosperous when you have a system that makes it possible in the first place. You don't "make" your money all by yourself. You exchange the products of your labor with people who are able to pay you.

Bill Gates recognizes where his money came from. Too many people fail to see that their money came from ... "other people"... a concept that seems to be harder and harder for people to grasp.

No man is an island. When everybody around you is living in wretchedness, you are too. We depend on one another to create opportunities for us. If nobody has a dime for an apple, nobody's going to make much money selling apples.

I can't see why socialism is perceived as such an evil thing. Are people really that blind to the fundamental fact that our well being is a matter of the well being of others? Some people just can't seem to understand that it isn't "all about meeee".

I'm not going to bother addressing the usual slippery slope and straw dog arguments.

Again, no where in that Bill of Rights or Constitution will you see, "You have the right to a home, food and medical care at the expense of everyone else." Are you being obstinate on purpose?

The difference is CHOICE. Do you not see that even in what you wrote? We CHOOSE to purchase whatever that product of labor is, no one is FORCING us to do that.

CHOICE is the difference.

Less government means we have more choices. More, socialist government means we have less choices. We are NOT a socialist country and I'd prefer it stay that way. If you want to live in a socialist country, please go live in a socialist country.

I'll bet you'll be back.

[RedJacket]

Originally Posted by GatorMama

Again, no where in that Bill of Rights or Constitution will you see, "You have the right to a home, food and medical care at the expense of everyone else."

I take it you've made that perfectly clear to the political taxpayer parasites in your state.

[Vaedrem]

Originally Posted by Razzbar

"... that among these are life, liberty, ... ". Get it? Those are just given as examples. As civilization advances, we recognize more rights.

The thing "rugged individualists" don't understand about "socialism" is that there money comes from other people. It is only possible to become prosperous when you have a system that makes it possible in the first place. You don't "make" your money all by yourself. You exchange the products of your labor with people who are able to pay you.

Bill Gates recognizes where his money came from. Too many people fail to see that their money came from ... "other people"... a concept that seems to be harder and harder for people to grasp.

No man is an island. When everybody around you is living in wretchedness, you are too. We depend on one another to create opportunities for us. If nobody has a dime for an apple, nobody's going to make much money selling apples.

I can't see why socialism is perceived as such an evil thing. Are people really that blind to the fundamental fact that our well being is a matter of the well being of others? Some people just can't seem to understand that it isn't "all about meeee".

I'm not going to bother addressing the usual slippery slope and straw dog arguments.

Great points.

I can't believe people are even coming into this thread to debate whether everyone deserves food; we already have food stamps and many similar programs that people are depending on in the financial crisis. But you want American children to starve to death just so that taxes on the wealthy can be lowered? You know what costs a lot of money? Bitter, cynical people demanding that social programs be overseen by a giant bureaucracy to keep the people who offend their personal prejudices from receiving benefits. Honestly, it's none of your business; people's human rights (which, yes, goes beyond the constitution) should not be filtered by such petty meanness.

[Cartoonemon]

Originally Posted by RedJacket

I take it you've made that perfectly clear to the political taxpayer parasites in your state.

You're out of topic. We're not talking about political corruption but how to deal with the homeless problem.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by jeffington

Oh my. Perhaps you should get yourself under control before you post again. To help you still your pounding heart, I'll put the following text in front of my post.

"In the overwhelming majority, but not the totality, of cases".

I hope you feel better now.

And further, I am not talking about an occasional helping hand to carry otherwise-productive people over rough spots, but the chronic bum who has given up on life's responsibilities.

"Get myself under control" for using a cuss word? It was an appropriate response and was in no way a sign of losing control. Sorry, your response is the reply of the dodo bird.

I maintain, such sweeping generalizations and the stuff that comes out of the a**es of the wild turkeys on my property bear a resemblance.

Perhaps you want to be clearer in your next set of generalizations.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by GatorMama

Again, no where in that Bill of Rights or Constitution will you see, "You have the right to a home, food and medical care at the expense of everyone else." Are you being obstinate on purpose?

The difference is CHOICE. Do you not see that even in what you wrote? We CHOOSE to purchase whatever that product of labor is, no one is FORCING us to do that.

CHOICE is the difference.

Less government means we have more choices. More, socialist government means we have less choices. We are NOT a socialist country and I'd prefer it stay that way. If you want to live in a socialist country, please go live in a socialist country.

I'll bet you'll be back.

Just because something is or isn't in the Constitution, doesn't mean it's not a Basic Human Right. Morality didn't begin with the Constitution.

I would argue in some cases, government programs mean MORE choices, between private sector and government programs...a combination that has been generally successful in Europe. Allow me to pre-empt your next response...Europe isn't "socialist," it's a government-capitalism system.

When it comes to health care, there are no choices, at least, not good ones. I question the morality of a for-profit health care system, when "death panels" at insurance companies can decide not to pay for life-saving or experimental breakthrough treatments based on their ROI. Countries far poorer than ours manage to cover their citizens. We don't. It's sad.

[McFrostyJ]

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

Just because something is or isn't in the Constitution, doesn't mean it's not a Basic Human Right. Morality didn't begin with the Constitution.

This is a VERY good point!

[rogue-wave]

Just curious, where on earth did you get the notion that life is fair? A Human right? I cannot even muster a comment on that, but I think the natives in Africa might want to talk to ya

Originally Posted by Vaedrem

There definitely is an increase of homelessness in Hawaii; so many people lost their jobs in the recession, and certainly won't be able to pay inflated bubble rent/mortgages. Housing is a human right, what we need is a guaranteed national housing program that nations such as Denmark have, where instead of homeless shelters, there is a wide range of subsidies that keeps people housed in mixed neighborhoods, and no one ends up on the streets in the first place. The prejudice for helping only older people with children is a real problem in the current situation where youth unemployment is much higher than the national average, and even young college graduates end up unable to establish themselves in the current economy.