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Old 06-25-2016, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,819,312 times
Reputation: 40166

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Iwo was used by thousands of B-29s, saving ten times the lives lost.
Let's not get carried away.

Approximately 6800 soldiers and sailors died taking Iwo Jima. Precisely 2251 B-29s landed on Iwo Jima. At eleven crewmen per aircraft, that comes nowhere close to 'tens times the lives lost'. And that's even if you assume that every one of those 2251 aircraft would have been lost at sea (an obvious incorrect assumption) with the loss of all crewmen (ditto).

First, B-29s put in at Iwo if there was any question at all about their fuel load, or some mechanical issue, or battle damage preventing them from making it back to base in the Marianas. Many of those landings were made in a very justifiable abundance of caution, but nevertheless the aircraft would have made it back to base if they had to push on. Second, many air crew were rescued after ditching their airplane, so the assumption that a lost aircraft meant eleven dead crew is obviously wrong. Finally, it should be noted that the total B-29 landings on the island included training flights and landings other than emergencies of any degree. These were not B-29s in distress.

It is also worth noting that Iwo Jima as an emergency landing strip for returning B-29s was used as a post-battle justification for the terrible cost of taking the island. The primary rationale for the invasion was as a base for fighters to escort B-29s to Japan. However, this ultimately proved impractical because P-51 simply weren't suitable for the mission (too high and too far), and the plan was scrapped - few fighter escorts from Iwo Jima actually took place. It was then that the casting about for some application to justify almost seven thousand dead was undertaken. And that's where the dubious "Every B-29 that landed at Iwo would otherwise have been lost with no survivors!" claim arises.
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Old 06-25-2016, 02:04 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,305,664 times
Reputation: 2172
He got away with it at Terowie Station, and thought he could do it again.
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:02 AM
 
13,651 posts, read 20,783,612 times
Reputation: 7653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
My dad used to tell me McArthur wanted to go to war with China and use nukes to win it. I know it was widely discussed at the time, but if McArthur ever recommended that, it was behind closed doors.

I recall reading that somewhere.

He was embarrassed that he'd been wrong on Chinese intervention in Korea. He was also friendly with Chiang Kai-Shek who was itching to get at Mao, for obvious reasons.

He wanted to blockade China, use Chiang's troops, and nukes if necessary.

The British and everybody else balked, not wanting to start WWIII.

Add that to the crap he was giving Truman and it is no surprise he was relieved.

Mac was a great General, but dug his own grave.
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:39 AM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,987 posts, read 21,933,822 times
Reputation: 7007
I remember Mac having a very good vibes with personel in Japan when I was there. When he left Ridgeway took over and things went downhill as far as morale was concerned. He (Mac) was still OKAY in my book.
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Old 06-29-2016, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,680 posts, read 2,967,833 times
Reputation: 4809
I have a theory regarding both Patton and McArthur. They were both effective war generals. The problem arose after the war. Both men wanted to keep fighting....keep killing enemies that no longer existed. Such men can be valuable assets during true global threats. Such men are inclined to become macro killers when the threat is imagined more than real.

The NSA had a listening post in Japan after WWII. Did they intercept McArthur's communications and forward them to Truman? I find this theory to be somewhat plausible.

Before panties get bunched up. I have no access to classified material. I do read books...while books are still available.

I think any soldier who wants to use weapons of mass destruction on innocent targets needs to be relieved. Civilians with similar goals? Why....we sometimes elect them. Murderers are rank amateurs..until they get elected. Or become the "power behind the throne".
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Old 06-29-2016, 12:14 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,305,664 times
Reputation: 2172
Patton said "Peace is going to be hell on me."

No Such Agency states that the NSA does not exist.
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,680 posts, read 2,967,833 times
Reputation: 4809
Guess those books I read belonged in fiction? Their 10 billion dollar budget? Ought to buy a few hammers and toilets for the Pentagon.

They used to be secretive enough....before the descent into internet bullying....along with a few dozen other agencies.

The government would like to know who is posting. Great idea really....


Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Patton said "Peace is going to be hell on me."

No Such Agency states that the NSA does not exist.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:48 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,305,664 times
Reputation: 2172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
Guess those books I read belonged in fiction? Their 10 billion dollar budget? Ought to buy a few hammers and toilets for the Pentagon.

They used to be secretive enough....before the descent into internet bullying....along with a few dozen other agencies.

The government would like to know who is posting. Great idea really....
You might want to get a sense of humor installed.
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Old 06-29-2016, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
7,588 posts, read 6,631,916 times
Reputation: 17966
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Iwo was used by thousands of B-29s, saving ten times the lives lost.
Sorry not to have gotten back to this earlier, but my reply would have been mostly along the lines of Unsettomati's post. I won't cover the same ground. I'll just use the opportunity to ask you a question, if you don't mind.

As I try to track back to the truth about Iwo Jima, I find conflicting information, but quite a lot of what I find is pretty solidly aligned with Unsettomati's post, and what would have been my next post had he not beaten me to it. Trouble is, I've had trouble properly sourcing that argument. Most of it always seems to trace back to Burrell, and when i try to find confirmatory data, the trail always seems to go cold. I'm sure you're familiar with Burrell's position on this... what's your opinion of it?
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Old 06-30-2016, 02:10 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,305,664 times
Reputation: 2172
Not familiar with Burrell. I deal with primary sources for the majority of my work. When I read secondary works it's mostly to see what sources they're citing.
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