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So you hired a "clown that hacks your shrubs" and is unskilled,
what then is the 'professional landscape company' that doesn't hack your bushes? ....still unskilled?
$10hr wont pay workers comp insurance, advertising, licensing fees, equipment, accounting fees or liability insurance. The helper gets $12 to $20 /hr.
You obviously want the cheapest hack that is out there and wont hire a pro-mover company, or do any research BEFORE you hire them. Didn't think to Yelp these guys first?
Do it yourself, pay up or quit whining.
Trimming shrubs is not a skill, it can be done by anybody if they do it carefully. I've done it myself from age 13 without anybody telling me how. Snip, snip,...step back and look...snip, snip, step back and look..repeat, 50 times. Clean up the trimmings. Time consuming but not "skilled."
Moving furniture is not a skill. Any well-muscled guy who doesn't mind some sweat and can avoid hitting walls with stuff can do it. In fact, you can go and hire day workers for that. Most name brand moving companies do it.
Except that as I stated earlier in the thread, I don't have the tools (nail gun, power saw) or a car big enough to transport the materials.
I also already declared that we would be tackling this ourselves, further back in the thread. We actually decided just to permanently close the door (rather than rip it out and frame/close the wall) by using brackets to attach it to the frame on the "open" side then add trim around all edges. It'll look weird but work ok for us till we reno the upstairs in a few years.
I'm struggling with why you think you need a power saw and a nail gun to do this? Buy a hand saw and a hammer. You are talking a few 2x4's here, it's not a big project by any stretch of the imagination. It takes probably 30 seconds to cut a 2x4 by hand. A nail takes 10 seconds to pound, max. Most big box stores either deliver, or have a truck you can rent to haul your stuff.
I get that you started the thread to vent, but you could literally have had this done in the amount of time you've invested in this thread. And you wouldn't be stuck with some weird looking permanently closed door.
SO agree, on all points! Coming from Europe I can say it is getting like there. I have fixed up 3 homes so far. My first was during a period of "contraction" or mini recession. The trades ppl were falling over each other for my business and so I had good work done for a reasonable price. Now the prices are quite high and the quality of work is often poor. I can paint, and could have done a better job than the "professional painters" I hired. I feel like so many folks don't take pride in their work. What I've found in this area (Raleigh, NC), is that due to all the growth we have, people who aren't skilled craftsmen get into the business of painting, plumbing, carpentry repairs with minimal abilities and have plenty of work. They start believing their own PR and charging higher prices for sub-par work. References are of little help as they cover their mistakes sufficiently that the shoddy work doesn't show for a while and so customers will tell you they did a good job. I was burned using a painter like this.
Like your bread analogy!
It partly has to do with supply and DEMAND. Demand is the important thing. The supply end assumes that as long as the demand is high, you can charge whatever you want, and get away with a crummy job. It's them or nothing.
I used to do almost all my remodels myself. But my (very handy, and hunky) BF left me, and now I have Arthuritis that makes it impossible for me to do most anything. I have two fixer uppers now that are simply staying fixer uppers. I will not empty out my wallet for substandard work. Or pay somebody $80 an hour, per person, to do stuff I could formerly do myself, even with a C+ in 8th grade shop class. It's the principle of the thing.
Way too many people are looking for guys to do their remodel, and these suckers are just too willing to pay too much. It's as simple as that, really.
Trimming shrubs is not a skill, it can be done by anybody if they do it carefully. I've done it myself from age 13 without anybody telling me how. Snip, snip,...step back and look...snip, snip, step back and look..repeat, 50 times. Clean up the trimmings. Time consuming but not "skilled."
Moving furniture is not a skill. Any well-muscled guy who doesn't mind some sweat and can avoid hitting walls with stuff can do it. In fact, you can go and hire day workers for that. Most name brand moving companies do it.
Since you think those jobs require no skill ok let me ask you this? Do you type on a computer at work? If so that's not a skill. Most people learn how to type in grade school. So most of the day you are typing on the keyboard should your boss outsource that part of the job to a kid in high school and pay you less? No because he is not paying you for that part he is paying you for the knowledge of what to do on that computer. Same thing with that guy trimming shrubs you are paying for his knowledge of how to trim the shrubs the proper way so they continue to grow the manual labor is only part of it.
Reminds me of a time when i had a service call for an electrical problem. Guy called me saying a couple rooms would intermittently lose power. When i arrived he told me which rooms were the problem and i checked that breaker neutral connection. The screw on the neutral bar was very loose for that circuit. I restripped the wire and tightened the neutral lug and that fixed the problem.
Customer asked what do i owe you? $120. He got somewhat disgusted and said "all you did was tighten a screw and it took 10 minutes" I forget what i said to the guy but what he didn't understand was that he wasn't paying me to tighten a screw, he was paying me to know where to look and what screw to tighten...the knowledge. My training and my experience gave me that knowledge of knowing exactly where to go and what to do.
Every job has tasks involved that most people can do but the knowledge part not everyone has. And another thing is many trades are very labor intensive and a lot of people can't handle just that part.
Since you think those jobs require no skill ok let me ask you this? Do you type on a computer at work? If so that's not a skill. Most people learn how to type in grade school. So most of the day you are typing on the keyboard should your boss outsource that part of the job to a kid in high school and pay you less? No because he is not paying you for that part he is paying you for the knowledge of what to do on that computer. Same thing with that guy trimming shrubs you are paying for his knowledge of how to trim the shrubs the proper way so they continue to grow the manual labor is only part of it.
Reminds me of a time when i had a service call for an electrical problem. Guy called me saying a couple rooms would intermittently lose power. When i arrived he told me which rooms were the problem and i checked that breaker neutral connection. The screw on the neutral bar was very loose for that circuit. I restripped the wire and tightened the neutral lug and that fixed the problem.
Customer asked what do i owe you? $120. He got somewhat disgusted and said "all you did was tighten a screw and it took 10 minutes" I forget what i said to the guy but what he didn't understand was that he wasn't paying me to tighten a screw, he was paying me to know where to look and what screw to tighten...the knowledge. My training and my experience gave me that knowledge of knowing exactly where to go and what to do.
Every job has tasks involved that most people can do but the knowledge part not everyone has. And another thing is many trades are very labor intensive and a lot of people can't handle just that part.
Good point.....finally you have expressed yourself in a way that makes your argument stand.
When a potential customer calls a contractor and asks for an estimate, they by default and indirectly are admitting that they do not know what it will cost.
Then when a contractor tells a potential customer what the cost will be. . . . .
That is not necessarily a starting point to start beating a contractor up over price.
Trimming shrubs is not a skill, it can be done by anybody if they do it carefully. I've done it myself from age 13 without anybody telling me how. Snip, snip,...step back and look...snip, snip, step back and look..repeat, 50 times. Clean up the trimmings. Time consuming but not "skilled."
Moving furniture is not a skill. Any well-muscled guy who doesn't mind some sweat and can avoid hitting walls with stuff can do it. In fact, you can go and hire day workers for that. Most name brand moving companies do it.
As I was once told, just because you can dig a hole, a landscaper it does not make you.
If you ask around and get recommendations from neighbors or friends, I really don't see why it's so hard to find a good or decent landscaper or contractor. My plumber, electrician, handyman, contractor, and yard guy…were all recommendations from either the person I bought the house from (so the worker already knew the house) … or a neighbor I made a point of introducing myself to when I moved in and got to know…and of course I asked friends for people who'd done work for them.
Heck a lot of tradesman know each other. So why not ask my go-to plumber, if he knows of a carpenter, or why not ask my electrician if he knows of handyman? If i've used the same yard guy for ten years, he's not about to screw me and recommend someone who's not good. It doesn't have to be that complicated. It's called ASKING AROUND!
I always start with a at least one recommendation.
Since you think those jobs require no skill ok let me ask you this? Do you type on a computer at work? If so that's not a skill. Most people learn how to type in grade school. So most of the day you are typing on the keyboard should your boss outsource that part of the job to a kid in high school and pay you less? No because he is not paying you for that part he is paying you for the knowledge of what to do on that computer. Same thing with that guy trimming shrubs you are paying for his knowledge of how to trim the shrubs the proper way so they continue to grow the manual labor is only part of it.
Reminds me of a time when i had a service call for an electrical problem. Guy called me saying a couple rooms would intermittently lose power. When i arrived he told me which rooms were the problem and i checked that breaker neutral connection. The screw on the neutral bar was very loose for that circuit. I restripped the wire and tightened the neutral lug and that fixed the problem.
Customer asked what do i owe you? $120. He got somewhat disgusted and said "all you did was tighten a screw and it took 10 minutes" I forget what i said to the guy but what he didn't understand was that he wasn't paying me to tighten a screw, he was paying me to know where to look and what screw to tighten...the knowledge. My training and my experience gave me that knowledge of knowing exactly where to go and what to do.
Every job has tasks involved that most people can do but the knowledge part not everyone has. And another thing is many trades are very labor intensive and a lot of people can't handle just that part.
One of the primary reasons I did my own remodels is because I knew that I would do it right. I have the "knowledge" part down pat. Putting up studs is not rocket science. Neither is rough wiring or plumbing. However, mudding drywall is.
Believe me...I could afford an addition on my house with the dough I earned in just 3 days so money's no object. But I want something done right - not sloppy, not slap dash and I know the difference. And, ironically, of all the work I have farmed out over the years, the best work was done by the cheapest contractor I ever hired. Did beautiful work and even offered good ideas. That's a once in a lifetime lucky strike. On the other hand, the dude that I hired for the most money did a crap job that I wound up having to do over myself. And he had an attitude on top of it.
The electrician job you relate requires knowledge beyond pure experience. Measuring 2X4's and trimming shrubs - just requires experience. That's $30/hr, max. The two categories can't be compared.
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and charging higher prices for sub-par work. References are of little help as they cover their mistakes sufficiently that the shoddy work doesn't show for a while and so customers will tell you they did a good job. I was burned using a painter like this. 
