BRAND NEW Home Build... Major Settling Issues & Concrete Worries!! (springs, phone)

[Rickcin]

Originally Posted by Seguinite

The garage slab would concern me as well... but wouldn't the final backfill around the foundation come at the end of the build?

No, it should be back-filled as soon as possible, no need to leave open excavations.

[Chopperz4Life]

Originally Posted by Rickcin

Yes, the basement slab could definitely be virgin throughout as shown on the section view.

Is the garage at the same level?

No garage is set higher.
Here is home pic



"Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguinite
The garage slab would concern me as well... but wouldn't the final backfill around the foundation come at the end of the build?
No, it should be back-filled as soon as possible, no need to leave open excavations."


Also after foundation was formed & poured... the walls were exposed for some time (weeks or more?).
Not sure if this was for inspection purposes or...???
Then we came in one day & it was filled in to levels as pictures show.
Then soil slowly deteriorated & settled down.
As mentioned, pretty much just pushed back in with dirt & NO compaction.


I'll add a few more points to what the builder said:
- We haven't attempted to address settling yet. Closer to finish of home we will perform final backfill, grading, & compacting.
- We dig to virgin ground, undisturbed for all of the footing, etc.
- can't guarantee the surface of concrete or dirt surrounding home. Structure is guaranteed & inspected (as you see from next picture of the contract... it contradicts what contract says is covered as far as the structure... SEE EXCLUDING WARRANTY).
- garage floor slab we will address & fix. If it requires messing with actual floor, we will take care of that... then mentions expanding foam, etc.

[Chopperz4Life]

Originally Posted by K'ledgeBldr

I want you to read this-

https://buildingadvisor.com/project-...pecifications/

Read it until you understand it. Then read the link for the "Residential Construction Performance Guidelines". This is the "Blue&Gold" bible of residential builders- it is their standard for building; and a buyer's guide to understanding the standards that are used.

Your post with the latest pics are what would be considered "Pre-construction description of materials" and code relations. I took a quick glance- one note that is wrong. Basement supporting walls that are framed with 2X4's have to be 12"o/c if there are 2stories above. And that's what it appears you have in another pic/diagram. If they are framed with 2X6's, they can be 16"o/c.

If you're finding all of this overwhelming...
One- you took a wrong step with this builder

Two- you wouldn't be hear asking questions if the builder had set a realistic and reasonable expectation. And designated a field rep for you to communicate with on a daily basis.

Three- If you had any doubts going in, you should have pulled the plug. Going forward you need an independent PE to not only discuss the current conditions, but to also oversee the construction going forward.

One other note- you need to read your contract. Read it! Understand it! And comprehend where you stand and where the builder stands. If this is a contract that the builder presented, you can bet it leans heavily in his favor.

Good luck-

K'Bldr…
Thank you for the link. I am reading it as we speak! Much appreciated!!


Reponses to your statements...

"If you're finding all of this overwhelming...
One- you took a wrong step with this builder"


Lil history:
Yes VERY overwhelming!
We saw a home they built & wanted it rebuilt further back in the subdivision.
We wanted things included upfront ie. finishings, etc... just like the initial house they had for sale. Told them numerous times I do not want surprise upcharges later on. Seriously, like half a dozen times I mentioned this. We want the SAME house with the SAME furnishings just further back in the new development... even sent pics of what was included & what we wanted.
Only added a cabinet in bathroom & changed flooring color.
Other features were to be included but aren't...
Been a few rounds on this already... just frustrating.

For ex to get:
... well your bid says garage door with insulation. It doesn't say garage windows included.
But the print shows the windows & the initial house has the garage windows...?!?!?!
Well sorry, that's an upcharge.
WTF?!?!
Ugggggggghhhhhh….
Things like this.
Won't lie I missed things & owned it but... come on.

That's what I get for being naïve... I guess.

Anyways, they supposedly have a good reputation in the area from what we been told... but things have been a lot more vague then expected. Getting upcharges for things that were included on the other home & now saying it's not included on yours.... frys me. It's not right.
But they say they saw it differently when they quoted or whatever.
Still hard to get past.... "We want the SAME house with SAME furnishings"... & send pics.

Was told a more than a few times they would be happy to give me my money back.
They want me happy & if I'm not then... here's your down back.
Guess when I am told a price... I expect it to be that price.

May have been told they could sell that house for a lot more at some point as well... hmmmmm...
So again not the warmest fuzzy.

Talks were held back in end of July 19... signed in Sept 19... with plans to start construction in Nov 19. Didn't happen until like Jan 18, 2020.
Really did not want to build in winter but... was reassured they do it all the time.
Now with spring thaw... am looking at these potential issues.

Also, I cannot even touch a similar used home in this ballpark price. Actually cheaper to build than buy here! Market is crazy with influx of people leaving CA, OR & WA.
I locked in price in Aug, Sept... so they could sell it for more.
But...

Done venting... haha

Guess I will give them the chance to make us happy & make things right.
I will still call around on a Geotechnical Eng & get them to do an inspection for peace of mind.

If need be & anything is found to be deficient... tear it all out & redo it correctly... as far as garage floor goes... & backfill, etc.
Or guess we walk.

This has sure made me aware of what to ask & make sure what gets written down in the beginning... the next time we do this... if ever.


Two- you wouldn't be hear asking questions if the builder had set a realistic and reasonable expectation. And designated a field rep for you to communicate with on a daily basis.
Was NEVER set in the beginning AT ALL! So yes... been very frustrating to say the least.
As far as field rep or project manager... he was not there for initial conversations with the owner. So we always seem to go back to the owner. Sure he deals with hundreds of buyers since then but... still frustrating. Was told by friends, this is the game home builders play out here so... I'm not a player.


Three- If you had any doubts going in, you should have pulled the plug. Going forward you need an independent PE to not only discuss the current conditions, but to also oversee the construction going forward.
No doubts in the beginning.... but things didn't start to appear until 7+ months later... with the upcharges & such. Thought we had everything talked about & agreed. We have their project manager & go back & forth with him & the owner every so often but...
No completely agree, INDEPENDENT professional needed ASAP.


One other note- you need to read your contract. Read it! Understand it! And comprehend where you stand and where the builder stands. If this is a contract that the builder presented, you can bet it leans heavily in his favor.
As you mention... leans in his favor. SEE contract posted in last post.


Honestly, been off of work since March 26th... & will be off for who knows how long!

* The world is in flames & chaos!!!!*
People are dying & sick... & quarantined... & dealing with all this **** doesn't help.

My prayers are out to those that have lost their job & dealing with these tough times!
I have a 82yrd old Pops at home.... by himself in a different state... that I am worrying about!

[GreenPluto]

The bottom line is your contractor did a half ass job at compaction. He should have done it in layers/lifts with compaction equipment and proper water content. Besides talking with a geotechnical/soils engineer, you might want to talk to a lawyer too, and have a coordinated approach to dealing with the contractor. If your property is overseen by a city/regional building department, get them involved too by sending out an inspector.

[K'ledgeBldr]

Originally Posted by GreenPluto

The bottom line is your contractor did a half ass job at compaction. He should have done it in layers/lifts with compaction equipment and proper water content. Besides talking with a geotechnical/soils engineer, you might want to talk to a lawyer too, and have a coordinated approach to dealing with the contractor. If your property is overseen by a city/regional building department, get them involved too by sending out an inspector.

It's already been established that the backfill so far is SOP. Could it have had a better result as of now- yes. But the house still has quite a ways to go before final grade will be established.

If there was a problem with the foundation itself at this point- a soils eng. would probably be a good idea. But this is backfill around a foundation- it doesn't support anything. An engineer at this point is moot.

I also see no need for a lawyer at this time- there's a communication problem; and that's not a civil or criminal act. It's just bad business!

[Chopperz4Life]

Originally Posted by GreenPluto

The bottom line is your contractor did a half ass job at compaction. He should have done it in layers/lifts with compaction equipment and proper water content. Besides talking with a geotechnical/soils engineer, you might want to talk to a lawyer too, and have a coordinated approach to dealing with the contractor. If your property is overseen by a city/regional building department, get them involved too by sending out an inspector.

Green Pluto... and K'Blder...


Thanks for the advice!!
I did get ahold of a Geotech Eng yesterday.
It was good timing because we finally had some good rain here & it was never inspected under these conditions.
He was astonished by the inadequate workmanship as most of you have stated throughout the backfill grading & compaction progress.
Took a bunch of pictures & is drafting up a letter for the builder.


His recommendation is dig it out to footing level & backfill in layers/lifts with compaction equipment and proper water content like you and others have stated.
He also said the garage floor should be tore out as it is highly doubtful compaction was performed correctly there as well.
He wants them to pay for testing & such to further investigate that issue as well.


I will definitely contact the city/regional building department & get them involved like you mentioned by sending out an inspector.
I was wondering this before & if it could be done.
I would love to have them watch & to make sure this is getting done properly!!


I haven't brought all this up to the builder yet... but told us yesterday after WE contacted THEM again... they are going to tear out a portion of the garage & check for further issues.
Hmmmmmm….


Anyways, with yesterdays rain... we did notice some potential water intrusion/moisture in the basement corner.
It is only in this area throughout the whole basement.
Probably where its greatly pooled up in a swamp... against the foundation wall in the pics I uploaded.


See attached pics & let me know what you think.


Thank you'all!!!

[Chopperz4Life]

Originally Posted by K'ledgeBldr

It's already been established that the backfill so far is SOP. Could it have had a better result as of now- yes. But the house still has quite a ways to go before final grade will be established.

If there was a problem with the foundation itself at this point- a soils eng. would probably be a good idea. But this is backfill around a foundation- it doesn't support anything. An engineer at this point is moot.

I also see no need for a lawyer at this time- there's a communication problem; and that's not a civil or criminal act. It's just bad business!

K'Bldr,

As you stated there is still some time to go with final grade etc.

Guess the question is...
should I be asking them if they are going to... come in & remove what was done inadequately & resolve it correctly via established backfill in lifts & compaction?

Wouldn't that be what they do & the next step is regardless on final grade?
Or are they just gonna come in & throw more backfill on top of the problem & not get down deep enough to compact it properly in lifts?


I am too premature in all of this or do I need it taken care of before final grade?
Or is it something that will be addressed at that time?

Hell was the Getech Eng even premature & is a letter even good at this point?


I can see the lawyer at this point... I don't want to go down that road.

If they aren't willing to make it right & correct it... I just walk away.

Honestly, the Geotech Eng wants to get a little more aggressive with the builder.
I didn't know what I thought about that.
He is planning on writing a letter to resolve said issues/concerns thus far.
Guess that is the next approach & we see how they respond.

Like Green Pluto mentioned I probably need to get a city inspector involved at this point.

Unfortunately I don't have any of the answers.
Just want to be fair & get potential issues resolved & not get boned with severe problems later down the road.


The problem I see is this is the prime or general... & they are sub'ing all this work out & not policing the subs work adequately.
But my concern is thus far they haven't watched the work... & they have a dozen homes going up on my block.

I appreciate everyone chiming in!
I need all the direction I can get.

[JonahWicky]

This may be "SOP" for a shoddy builder, but that doesn't make it right. He's hoping it will settle so he can just top it off and maybe run a Bobcat over it a couple of times to tamp it down. This guy will come up with every excuse in the book to avoid having to excavate and backfill correctly. If I had to guess, there's probably a lot of construction debris, rocks, and crappy fill material in there. Digging it out will probably damage the waterproofing on the outside of the foundation as well.

I think you were right to bring in an expert, as evidenced by his findings. I'd have him write a report and you can forward it to the builder. If nothing else it will tell him you're paying attention. Ideally, you should get a written response from him that it will be fixed properly. Otherwise you're only going to get a song and dance routine from him later.

Your moisture problem is very likely tied to this issue. Pull back the vapor barrier and insulation and see if it's coming in at the bottom of the wall or higher up. Any wetness is a sign of problems with the exterior waterproofing.

[Rickcin]

Its unprofessional and just plain pathetic to backfill a foundation in one lift and claim that it will settle naturally overtime, it’s completely unacceptable as far as I’m concerned, however it’s easily accessed and can be corrected.

The backfill under the garage floor is a different situation and I would insist on soil density tests adjacent to the foundation walls. If the compaction results determine that it’s compromised, then you have a claim for a credit that will allow you to deal with this at a future date or you could insist on removal and replacement of the slab prior to closing on the house. Hopefully you found a decent and practical soils engineer.

[Chopperz4Life]

Alright Gents.

Wow this just keeps getting better!

We did get a hold of the builder on Thursday since we never heard back on their plans for a path forward...
He said they were planning to tear only a portion of the garage floor out to inspect things further.
Hmmmmm okay...


So UPDATE...

Called yesterday & spoke with the city / county Building Dept & talked with an inspector on the phone for quite some time.
Told him the findings from the GeoT Eng & he wanted his info.
Was shocked by the news.
Told me that everything didn't sound good & we need to address this issue now.
Said it sounds like the builder needs to remove everything & backfill compact in lifts, etc.
He mentioned unfortunately the problem is they inspect the foundation & don't supervise the whole process with backfill, compaction etc.
That is up to the builder.
He pulled up the permit & made notes as final inspection was not signed off yet of course.
He told me to call Road & Bridge and explain everything to a few guys over there.
They were closed on Fridays so I left a message detailing everything.

IN the meantime, he was escalating this to the lead inspector & gonna have a chat with him.
I told him I hope they would go investigate my house out in person & well... he did.



A few hours later I get a call.... & it's a completely different conversation!!!!

He said he went over there to investigate the home personally & in his 20+ yrs experience in construction & inspection... everything was "COMPLETELY NORMAL"!!!
Said he walked through his inspection sheet & went over the whole house... perimeter, garage & basement.
Said he saw NO signs of water intrusion....
that the backfill was normal...
...& the rain water would help compact it all.
Said it was done like it should be...?!?!?!

….WHAT???!!!

Wanted to assure me there was nothing wrong with the house & wanted to personally alleviate my concerns.
Said the builder probably didn't even need to take out a portion of the garage & that if they put in material it would bite pretty well & should have no issues.
He felt the rest of the garage floor was fine as he was "stomping" around on it listening for hollow points.
Grabbing a bar today to go back & check things out myself.

Anyways, I said you didn't see the area on the floor where we thought was a line of moisture... & he saw no indication of water anywhere.
Checked the whole basement wall out.
He felt it was all good & that I had NOTHING to be concerned about.

Said the owner was usually pretty good about things & they haven't had any issues with the company.

Hmmmmmmm… okay..... interesting?!?!?!




So on that note JW...

I did pull back the vapor barrier & insulation back after the GeoT Eng left my house.

I prolly spent another hour or more in there trying to determine if it was wet or not...
Hell, went back & forth myself on it awhile.
It wasn't wet like you would really think it should be & be able to tell it was.
And to be honest, I looked at the walls & behind everything... it felt & looked dry.
Couldn't see or feel moisture coming in anywhere.
Even behind the base of the wall where we thought we see the moisture spot.
I did not see where any water was coming in at & again where it looked like a moisture line before felt completely dry behind it all.

Weird.
To be honest it was really hard to say truly if it was a moisture line in the pictures I posted.
Even GeoT didn't seem sure & waffled back a little bit at first.
Also I should say he never did lift the insulation or moisture barrier back either & look.
Wish I did it with him there!

Anyways, I went back yesterday to look at the basement spot & it looks like the line faded a tiny bit... but seriously really hard to tell with no lighting down there & using a phone light.

I had a friend check it out after the GeoTech left also & they weren't sure it really felt wet.
Looked like a darker line.
Could maybe be.... or it wasn't.
Difficult to tell.

**Guess the good news is that... I couldn't find or see any water on the walls or even behind the wood where that spot on the floor was.




Also JW, on the soil note....
the inspector said he looked at the piles of soil from the excavation & that is looked pretty clean.
Didn't see any construction debris, rocks, or crappy fill material in there.
Said it was powdery.



Rickcin…
Thanks for that!
Funny thing is, the inspector over the phone before he went & looked at everything said something to me that mirrored what you said...
that the builder needed to test adjacent to the foundation walls in the garage.

Then says after inspection...it is all fine after getting his own eyes on it!

WTF....?!?!?!


I don't know about you guys but