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Sadly, some people, including the media think that everything is about race.
Just look at the presidential election analysis, all they talk about is race. As if I don't have anything in common with my black, white, hispanic, indian and vietnamese neighbors that live pretty much next to me.
LOL. You sound like Louis Farrakhan. Imminent change? The only change I see is the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer. And you can thank our government for that. I'm not sure what change you are referring to. After all, the title of this thread, "more poor people moving to the suburbs" is about how the poor population is getting larger and the cities can't contain them. The poor will continue to get pushed out further and further and further from the city. And yes, if it will make you happy, the poor whites, poor blacks and poor hispanics will likely be herded together like cattle on cheap land far away. You will have your diversity, but you will hate your quality of life. Meanwhile, the rich will have the city all to themselves. You know how the saying goes, be careful what you wish for.
Listen! You are just proving my point that stereotypes are out there. Who ever mentioned "poverty" in the post? Did Dopo ever bring up the word "poverty"??? All he said was that someone in his office was thinking of moving out based on the increasing number of crimes in the area, and more blacks in Walmart. All he validated was an actual 'white flight' case. So in argument analysis and debate, that is like "Resolve:...", of the matter
That is SO simple to comprehend, hence my response. Even the OP [Dopo] turns it into a satire of sorts with his last comment, clearly suggesting that the desire to move out of a neighborhood based on "skin tone" moving into the area is ridiculous.
Then you come and take a simple matter and add complexity to it and pat yourself on the back. LOL. You immediately conclude "poverty" [stereotypical attitude] is the 'topic' in the post. You crack me up seriously...now I can understand why your arguments are so flawed. LOL
Dopo, if you are out there, please help us understand if 'poverty' was the main issue in your post, as opposed to people making misguided/biased judgment based on skin tone? I will retract my comments here if so. Thanks
Listen! You are just proving my point that stereotypes are out there. Who ever mentioned "poverty" in the post? Did Dopo ever bring up the word "poverty"??? All he said was that someone in his office was thinking of moving out, based on the increasing number of cimes in the area, and more blacks in walmart. All he validated was an actual 'white flight' case. So in argument analysis and debate, that is like "Resolve:...", of the matter
That is SO simple to comprehend, hence my response. Even the OP [Dopo] turns it into a satire of sorts with his last comment, clearly suggeting that the desire to move out of a neighborhood based on "skin tone" moving into the area is ridiculous.
Then you come and take a simple matter and add complexity to it and pat yourself on the back. LOL. You immediately conclude "proverty" [stereotypical attitude] is the 'topic' in the post. You crack me up seriously...now I can understand why your arguements are so flawed. LOL
Dopo, if you are out there, please help us understand if 'poverty' was the main issue in your post, as opposed to people making misguided/biased judgement based on skin tone? I will retract my comments here if so. Thanks
I was NOT responding to DOPO. Please read the TITLE of the thread!
"More Poor People Are Moving to the Suburbs"
It's the title of the thread! My God. Can someone please step up and make Str8talk's argument for him. He is having trouble understanding the title of the thread. Seriously anyone else...
Both are just terms referring socio ethno-demographics. Like "reverse white flight" in this thread. And "reverse black flight" when referring to blacks moving back South.
Nothing racist about. No different than the Dust Bowl. But its obvious, some people have a hard time accepting that a massive shift of any kind associated with ethnicity, could be constructed as racism.
When I hear that, along with "We're seeing more and more Mexican kids playing outside, and they dont speak English".
Right or wrong, we know psychologically people will associate anything to what they perceive as the source. If break ins are on the rise in a neighborhood, and more than half of the suspects are minorities, people will come to a conclusion.
I could not agree more with your comment:
"Right or wrong, we know psychologically people will associate anything to what they perceive as the source. If break ins are on the rise in a neighborhood, and more than half of the suspects are minorities, people will come to a conclusion"
It is very true and this accounts for a lot of the wrong behaviors toward others. One thing that I discovered that really helps, is to relate to everyone, irrespective of race or creed, as a 10. A 10 out of 10. Then as characters and attitudes manifest, count down, if necessary. I don't start from say a 3 and try and count up. Because quite honestly, it is very difficult to really come up with the right assessment of someone, by just their race.
I was NOT responding to DOPO. Please read the TITLE of the thread!
"More Poor People Are Moving to the Suburbs"
It's the title of the thread! My God. Can someone please step up and make Str8talk's argument for him. He is having trouble understanding the title of the thread. Seriously anyone else...
AND I was SPECIFICALLY responding to Dopo's post [#77]...read Dopo's statement [and UNDERSTAND it] and then my response...in context!!
Now you come in and respond to MY POST and make baseless comments that have NOTHING to do with what was said in the post by Dopo???? You probably don't know how to follow these discussions...9 pages into it and you respond to a post that is talking of something else related, by responding to the initial thread topic????? Are you REALLY serious or are you kidding the rest of us here???
Anyone out there, help this person with a dose of sound reason and reality. He/She makes no sense AT ALL! LOL
I meant the post [#77] and comment you made about the person at your workplace who wanted to move away, and talked about an increase in crime and black people at Walmart....
Str8Talk I have tried repeatedly to debate you in a civilized fashion while trying to ignore your accusations I must be some racist or my "kind" doesn't understand. You use this language repeatedly and then say you are not attacking me. That's a nice strategy. I have brought mostly facts to this thread which you continue to ignore. I used the 500k home because THAT is the AVG price of homes in the LOOP. We are not talking about Akron, OH, this thread is about Houston. If it wasn't about Houston the moderators would have moved it. So let's try this ONE MORE TIME. Poor people are moving out of the "city" to the "suburbs". The avg home in the city of Houston actually IS very expensive. That's been discussed ad nausem on this board for awhile now. So because of that, poor people can no longer afford to live in the city. Not poor black or poor latino, but poor everyone. So where do they go? The suburbs. Why? Because Houston has very affordable suburbs. Economics!!!! Then you and few others come in and say, well, it's not really about economics, it's about race. No, it's about economics. The inner loop actually IS VERY expensive. It's expensive to rent (although cheaper then NY, LA, CHicago) and it's more expensive to buy. So poor people make an economic choice. To MOVE. That is what they do. Then out of no where we get these terms white flight, racism, segregation, all these other side topics thrown in.
The fact of the matter is, homes in the loop are NOT 150k. They ARE 150k in the burbs. Even in the nice burbs like the Woodlands or Sugarland you can find older smaller homes for 100k to 150k. THAT is why people are leaving the city. Not to escape black people. Or Latino's other OTHERS. I then made an argument as to why people in a "particular" burb, whose complexion was changing "color" would not necessarily move even if they wanted to. The fact of the matter is, moving is not cheap. Even if your home is worth 100k. It's all relative. If I'm living in a home that cheap, chances are, money is not plentiful in my household. So if paying a few thousand to move is too much. So in order to "help" you with "your" argument, I took your bait and played along and said OK, let's say someone CAN afford to move AND they hate black people. Let's go with that. Talk about an outlier, that's probably 2% of the population. But let's go with that 2%. So I used an example of a 500k home. Why? Because I had to pick a sample of someone who COULD afford to move. So for a guy with a 500k home and he HATES black people the question is, does he HATE them so much that he would uproot his kids and family from their schools AND cough out 35k to a realtor to sell his house and pay another 10k in closing costs in a new home FURTHER away from the OTHERS. When he must entertain the idea that those OTHERS might move into THAT neighborhood. I then asked you at what point does he stop running? It makes absolutely no economic sense. You have to suspend all reality to follow this logic. But even at that, I acknowledged that you know, this world is big enough that statistically speaking, that guy probably DOES exist. I gave you that. But my goodness, to suggest that is even a large part of the Houston population is just bonkers. I'm guessing he is part of a group that is 5% or less. I even went further to state that that guy is an a-hole. And any community that had that "type" of guy would benefit from him moving out. I actually supported your cause there.
I have continued to ask you for data showing that this is an epidemic in Houston. Not the 1960's in the deep south. But right here right now in Houston, TX. I continue to maintain that a large majority of the people that live here are diverse and co-integrate well with all races. I have seen this first hand since moving down here. I encountered far more racism in NY and Chicago then I have here. And I continue to maintain until proven otherwise by actual data, not theory, that a majority of people make their important life decisions based on economic need and desire, not on colored people moving into their neighborhood.
At some point I would really appreciate you to put your "theory" away and bring out your "facts". Not facts from the midwest or the deep south in 1960's but facts that show that THIS city, the city of Houston today in the year 2013 has a large population of people that are RUNNING from "OTHERS" by quickly moving out of their home, of their neighborhood and their schools to ESCAPE and SURVIVE. If you or ANYONE on this board provides that data, I will absolutely change my mind. As the old saying goes" when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do sir". John Maynard Keynes
And one last point and then let's please drop these attacks, I used the word psychosis to describe you because there are many people, and you may or may not be one of them, that have a tendency to see racism EVERYWHERE. And I mean EVERYWHERE. As the saying goes, you hear dog whistles. Chris Matthews likes to repeat. A dog whistle is a code word that sounds like a normal every day word but when spoken by a white man it's code for racist. For example if a white man describes a person as "angry". Mathews would posit that using the word angry to describe a black man is code for racist because angry is a stereotypical description of a black man. You sounded like someone who sees racists everywhere, in your sleep, in your car, at the store, at the bank. Yes, there are racists in our society. But a majority are not. And when you start throwing that word out, you kill all potential for a meaningful and intelligent debate. So psychosis was used to describe the fact that you continued to harp on race when the thread was about the economic reasons why poor people are moving to the suburbs. OK, enough of that.
If you care to post some actual FACTS and DATA I give you my word, and my word is my bond, that I will acknowledge that I overlooked some important aspect of this argument. But there have to be FACTS. Not assumptions about how you personally know how people think or feel and how you can get inside their head and read their thoughts and motivations, provide real hard data. This goes for anyone not just you.
And just so we are clear where I stand, I admit there ARE racists in Houston. There are racists in San Francisco as well. And yes, there are a FEW people that probably would pack their bags overnight and move if they saw 3 black people shopping in their local grocery store. I have stated that. I am saying this is not the majority of reason why people move. I'm saying most people move for economic reasons. For example in Houston they say, or at least everyone on this board says, move close to where you work. Why? Traffic. I believe that. That makes sense to me and data supports that notion. People also move where they find value. For example, if it cost 800k to buy a small 1200 sq foot house in Montrose and it cost 250k to buy a 3k sq foot home in the Woodlands and this family has 2 kids, then it's reasonable to expect that many people will choose to live in the Woodlands vs Montrose if they are OK with the commute. And again, FACTS support that argument.
So the ball is in your court.
Facts?! You can't even follow a simple thread and you want facts? I gave you facts already about 'white flight' in London [you dismissed them or could not fathom them], I posted facts via links for you, I analyzed the facts on the potential of wrong attitudes [death], I used facts to point out the flaw in using outliers, etc. You can't handle facts!
I'm not gonna read everything you guys have said...
but I thought it was clear in my post, the guy said that he is thinking about moving because he thinks/says that crime has increased where he lives (nothing wrong with that)
but then he went on to say that he is seeing more and more black people in the Walmart close to his house.
Actually, this is pretty much what he said 'I don't mean to be racist but everyday I see more black people at the Walmart by my house, my wife doesn't even go shopping there anymore, now she drives 10 miles to the other Walmart (instead of 1 mile)"
Since we are talking about somebody that nobody here knows, I can tell you that this is Walmart he was talking about.
I'm not gonna read everything you guys have said...
but I thought it was clear in my post, the guy said that he is thinking about moving because he thinks/says that crime has increased where he lives (nothing wrong with that)
but then he went on to say that he is seeing more and more black people in the Walmart close to his house.
Actually, this is pretty much what he said 'I don't mean to be racist but everyday I see more black people at the Walmart by my house, my wife doesn't even go shopping there anymore, now she drives 10 miles to the other Walmart (instead of 1 mile)"
Since we are talking about somebody that nobody here knows, I can tell you that this is Walmart he was talking about.
Thanks for the express clarification - there was absolutely no reference to 'poverty' in your post. Sadly, people like jek74 are stereotypes.
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but everyday I see more black people at the Walmart by my house, my wife doesn't even go shopping there anymore, now she drives 10 miles to the other Walmart (instead of 1 mile)"
