2 burglars shot dead in Pasadena (Houston, Jasper: to buy, restaurants, price)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by KimK

Have a great Thanksgiving Day. Be careful and be safe. Thanks to all of you for a rousing discussion. It never hurts to share our thoughts.

And the same to you, KimK. And to everyone else on the thread.

I too enjoy a good debate, and I don't take disagreement personal. On that subject, there were a few posts of mine when inquiring about birthplaces and such, that I may have come across a bit abrasive. Yes, it is true I believe such things are relevent to the discussion and I admit without apology I can get a little "testy" when folks from certain other parts of the country come to Texas...and then begin critisizing us for not being like the place they apparently wanted to leave to begin with!

With that said though, I truly didn't mean to offer any personal insult or offence to anyone who may have taken it that way.

[amyalta]

This has been a very sobering discussion for me, a Brit thinking about relocating to Houston! In my outer London suburb, we have virtually no crime - if a purse is stolen it makes the headlines in the local paper, and I never have to think of the possibility of being robbed in a supermarket car park; in fact I would happily leave my car unlocked in our local one!

In our area, most houses have burglar alarms tho I don't know anyone who has been burgled in the 11 years I have lived in our street. When our neighbour's alarm went off and I called the police, they showed up in just over 2 minutes.

Maybe we should stay put - and we have free (wonderful, in my family's experience) health care, too - and no guns. Not to mention the fact that we use our one car about once a week, to drive the few miles into central London for a concert or play - everything here is in walking distance, including schools, library, church, every kind of shop including wonderful bakers' and coffee shops, and restaurants galore...maybe London has more going for it than I thought!

Thanks for an enlightening (and sometimes frightening) discusion.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by amyalta

Maybe we should stay put - and we have free (wonderful, in my family's experience) health care, too - and no guns. Not to mention the fact that we use our one car about once a week, to drive the few miles into central London for a concert or play - everything here is in walking distance, including schools, library, church, every kind of shop including wonderful bakers' and coffee shops, and restaurants galore...maybe London has more going for it than I thought!

Thanks for an enlightening (and sometimes frightening) discusion.

Thanks in turn, Amy, for your reasonable contribution to the discussion. I DO though want to reply in that since the almost total ban on handguns went into effect in England, the crime rate shot thru the roof. The figures are unarguable.

As far as health care goes? That is one that is being debated here in the states and, as there are other threads for the topic, I will limit my own offering here by saying there is no such thing as "free" health care. Just as there is no such thing as a "free" right to housing, a meal, or whatever. SOMEWHERE along the line, someone pays for it. It may come in the form of very high tax rates, but it does.

Ok...I am getting off topic, so will quit! Thanks again though, Amy, and Happy Thanksgiving.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

Recognizing that this case admits of potential racial implications is hardly irrational. And it's not like the tendency towards such a consideration is entirely without justifiable historical precedent.

The thing is, there is NOTHING that "admits" to anything of the sort. Other than the fact Mr. Horn is white and the burglers are black.

So far as "historical precedent" goes? Yeah, not many of us will deny that injustices have taken place in the past. BUT...that term can be used until doomsday as a catch-all excuse for playing the race card. The only relevant factor is does it apply to the INDIVIDUAL case in question?

And even then, a persons private attitudes should have nothing to do with whether they broke the law and the proscribed punishment. I say "should not" because I realize, unfortunately, it does, anymore. That is to say, the existence of so-called "hate crimes" enhancements. Which to me, are ridiculous and just a "feel good" (and selectively applied) law.

[texas7]

Originally Posted by amyalta

This has been a very sobering discussion for me, a Brit thinking about relocating to Houston! In my outer London suburb, we have virtually no crime - if a purse is stolen it makes the headlines in the local paper, and I never have to think of the possibility of being robbed in a supermarket car park; in fact I would happily leave my car unlocked in our local one!

In our area, most houses have burglar alarms tho I don't know anyone who has been burgled in the 11 years I have lived in our street. When our neighbour's alarm went off and I called the police, they showed up in just over 2 minutes.

Maybe we should stay put - and we have free (wonderful, in my family's experience) health care, too - and no guns. Not to mention the fact that we use our one car about once a week, to drive the few miles into central London for a concert or play - everything here is in walking distance, including schools, library, church, every kind of shop including wonderful bakers' and coffee shops, and restaurants galore...maybe London has more going for it than I thought!

Thanks for an enlightening (and sometimes frightening) discusion.

amyalta - I visited London for the first time last year and loved it. I know that living and visiting are entirely different. I was a bit sticker-shocked at the cost of things but also found my way to reasonable priced establishments. The cctv - while most people here would scream about their civil rights of being watched - I found them comforting - I felt safe any time day or night walking on the streets of London (yes I did stay away from what was considered seedier areas). I don't think people monitor those for entertainment purposes and I don't do anything wrong so I could care less if some stranger sees me walking the streets or in businesses. It is totally different than here. I love it here but I don't feel the safety I felt lin London (and I loved it too). I guess I am one to adjust to my surroundings and respect every location for what it is and the way things are.

[houstoner]

Originally Posted by amyalta

This has been a very sobering discussion for me, a Brit thinking about relocating to Houston! In my outer London suburb, we have virtually no crime - if a purse is stolen it makes the headlines in the local paper, and I never have to think of the possibility of being robbed in a supermarket car park; in fact I would happily leave my car unlocked in our local one!

Well, if you move to an outer Houston suburb that is not Pasadena you won't have to worry about it here either.

Seriously, though, I don't think anyone on this forum has ever recommended Pasadena as a choice relocation spot, for good reason. There are far, far better surrounding communities and suburbs in the area.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by Mom2Feebs

You have to be kidding me. Are you an actual, live, real person? With feelings? I don't believe it for a moment. I think you must be some sort of bot installed with some over-achieving politically correct program that's gone waaayyy haywire. It would explain a lot.

I have feelings. I also have a tendency to reason. And I know how to distinguish the two.

If you object to the shooter's decision on the basis of principle, what does the opinion (albeit reasonable, as I have pointed out) of someone you deem to be of dubious moral character have to do with your willingness to maintain your principled objection? Methinks your objection is at best a tenuous one, since you seem more prone to be swayed by some kind of visceral racial aversion than reasoned analysis.

[Wysiwyg]

racism is sooo 20th century. the alleged burglars fit the profile (these days its considered 'cool' to fit the gangsta profile), is confronting them with a gun really 'more racist' than hiding in fear until theyre gone?

[MrSykes]

So far as "historical precedent" goes? Yeah, not many of us will deny that injustices have taken place in the past.

Will you deny that they still take place?

BUT...that term can be used until doomsday as a catch-all excuse for playing the race card.

The "race card" will always be played. And so will the "denial card". Nothing new. Sometimes the play is legitimate, other times it isn't.

The only relevant factor is does it apply to the INDIVIDUAL case in question?

My only assertion is that it may, and it is an assertion that should at least be considered in the context of a wide-ranging rational discussion about the situation.

And even then, a persons private attitudes should have nothing to do with whether they broke the law and the proscribed punishment. I say "should not" because I realize, unfortunately, it does...

Problem is, people's private attitudes too often create the very conditions that dictate their likelihood to break the law under certain circumstances.

That is to say, the existence of so-called "hate crimes" enhancements. Which to me, are ridiculous and just a "feel good" (and selectively applied) law.

So long as there are those who actually commit crimes out of "hate" for another based upon the other's immutable characteristics (motivated by their "private" attitudes), hate crime legislation will continue to be necessarily enforced.

[texas7]

Originally Posted by houstoner

Well, if you move to an outer Houston suburb that is not Pasadena you won't have to worry about it here either.

Seriously, though, I don't think anyone on this forum has ever recommended Pasadena as a choice relocation spot, for good reason. There are far, far better surrounding communities and suburbs in the area.

Seriously - you have got to be kidding .... there is crime in every suburb of the city - even the nice, exclusive ones. It's isn't rampant but it is everywhere. And people are robbed in shopping center parking lots in all areas of town. That being said - most nice suburbs are relatlively safe if people use some common sense. And did you know that areas on along Clear Lake where the $1M+ homes are located are actually considered Pasadena? Have you seen the masterpiece hi-rises they are building along the lake - Pasadena (seems surprising but it is).