Houston-Dallas high speed rail: eminent domain approved (Utopia: appointed, real estate)

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

At the expense of draining the funds for all the other projects that can actually make a difference. We won't laugh, we'll breath a sigh of relief and cheer.

You're absolutely sure it will use public funding?

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

At the expense of draining the funds for all the other projects that can actually make a difference. We won't laugh, we'll breath a sigh of relief and cheer.

I always find it interesting that NOBODY has this concerns when highways/toll roads are built

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Dopo

I always find it interesting that NOBODY has this concerns when highways/toll roads are built

Maybe because those highways directly benefit hundreds of thousands of people. But I'm sure you think YOU are right and EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Maybe because those highways directly benefit hundreds of thousands of people. But I'm sure you think YOU are right and EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong.

Many highway projects benefit commuters who choose to live far from their place of employment (looking at you, Katy freeway expansion), as well as the developers who build the housing communities far outside the city. The people who mainly benefit are families of a certain income who have cars. Yes, that's a lot of people. But that leaves a LOT of people who don't benefit, and pay for it anyway. Not to mention the enormous toll the whole business (by which I mean the sprawling communities and acres of highway) takes on the environment, and on the closer-in communities that flood as a result of the development. And on cultural heritage, like the paleoindian burial ground that was destroyed for the outer loop construction a few years ago.

I'm not saying don't build the highways, though I could say that and feel just fine about it. What I'm saying, is please stop assuming that the freeways you are so enamored of are de facto a public good that we should all love, and that they benefit everyone. They most assuredly do not.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

Many highway projects benefit commuters who choose to live far from their place of employment (looking at you, Katy freeway expansion), as well as the developers who build the housing communities far outside the city. The people who mainly benefit are families of a certain income who have cars. Yes, that's a lot of people. But that leaves a LOT of people who don't benefit, and pay for it anyway. Not to mention the enormous toll the whole business (by which I mean the sprawling communities and acres of highway) takes on the environment, and on the closer-in communities that flood as a result of the development. And on cultural heritage, like the paleoindian burial ground that was destroyed for the outer loop construction a few years ago.

I'm not saying don't build the highways, though I could say that and feel just fine about it. What I'm saying, is please stop assuming that the freeways you are so enamored of are de facto a public good that we should all love, and that they benefit everyone. They most assuredly do not.

That's 91% of households. If a household can't afford a car it's not likely they are paying for much of anything.

And they aren't walking to the farm to get their food or walking to the Amazon warehouse to get their goods. Just about everything you buy in the stores is delivered by trucks using those roadways. So yes, everyone benefits from the highway. And sure, freight rail transports a lot of product intercity but not so much within the city. Rail does not do home deliveries.

Go ahead and say don't build highways. They will continue to be built.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

That's 91% of households. If a household can't afford a car it's not likely they are paying for much of anything.

And they aren't walking to the farm to get their food or walking to the Amazon warehouse to get their goods. Just about everything you buy in the stores is delivered by trucks using those roadways. So yes, everyone benefits from the highway. And sure, freight rail transports a lot of product intercity but not so much within the city. Rail does not do home deliveries.

Go ahead and say don't build highways. They will continue to be built.

I agree that highways are needed to transport goods. But you don't need a 16-lane highway for transport. The people benefitting from the endless expansions (the people causing the NEED for the endless expansions) are in the suburbs. That is not 91% of people.

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

I agree that highways are needed to transport goods. But you don't need a 16-lane highway for transport. The people benefitting from the endless expansions (the people causing the NEED for the endless expansions) are in the suburbs. That is not 91% of people.

It's all good, people like this are the ones that rail against any project they don't like until its completed. Once its completed, they use it and benefit from it just like everyone else. This will likely be no different. Once this is done, airline trips between Houston and Dallas will largely be a thing of the past and most of us will be happy to take a faster, more comfortable, more environmentally friendly trip between two of the largest metro economies in the world.

Foresight isn't a thing that oceangaia does and that's ok - people without foresight and imagination have been throwing stones at others ideas since the beginning of human history. We just laugh and move forward.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

It's all good, people like this are the ones that rail against any project they don't like until its completed. Once its completed, they use it and benefit from it just like everyone else. This will likely be no different. Once this is done, airline trips between Houston and Dallas will largely be a thing of the past and most of us will be happy to take a faster, more comfortable, more environmentally friendly trip between two of the largest metro economies in the world.

Foresight isn't a thing that oceangaia does and that's ok - people without foresight and imagination have been throwing stones at others ideas since the beginning of human history. We just laugh and move forward.

You're a funny man with big dreams.

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

You're a funny man with big dreams.

Shoot for the stars, at least get to the moon. If we make it to the moon and can't make it to the stars, the state should step in. The problem as I see it in this state is that politicians don't want to invest in the future, they just want to sit on their laurels and coast off of the state's past success, while spending money on stupid stuff that doesn't help the public. Can you imagine if there was no visionary that saw the potential for the Houston Ship Channel and put into motion its dredging and construction? What about if DFW airport was designed as the rather medium-sized airport that was originally envisoned? What about if no one had decided to implement the huge public works projects resulting in all of the state's lakes (except one IIRC)? How long would it have taken MLB to get to Texas had not someone had a vision of an indoor domed stadium for our hot climate?

We are where we are today due to the efforts of those who were willing to put themselves out there and make the case for why we needed to think bigger and be able to do big things. There were naysayers for each and every one of those projects I described, and there will always be naysayers when someone wants to do something different. It doesn't bother me, its just life and a reflection of our culture that's de-emphasized progress and innovation over the years.

[oceangaia]

^^^
Just because some visionary projects have done well doesn't mean all such projects are automatically a good idea. I'm not against visionary projects as a rule. Rail projects are proven losers. Do you think it helps your case to characterize my opposition to rail as an opposition to anything? The problem as I see it is that there is a segment in love with the idea of rail and will blindly rally around any rail project with complete dismissal of the financial issues.