Houston-Dallas high speed rail: eminent domain approved (Katy: apartment, how much)

[brock2010]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Just a little coincidence that this got approved today

It's certainly a surprise to me. I thought it was dead but we'll see what comes next.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by brock2010

It's certainly a surprise to me. I thought it was dead but we'll see what comes next.

The court ruling says the "railroad" can force the purchase of land, it doesn't give them the funding to actually do it. The issue is they don't have the money and can't get the money.

[Dopo]

You are assuming that they have to pay market value for the land
I recommend you do some reading on Texas eminent domain, such as Kinder Morgan 400 mile pipeline through the Hill country.

The battle over pipelines, population and property rights in Texas’ Hill Country
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ehn...641646934.html

The power of eminent domain dates back to building railroads, which were deemed crucial for public benefit. So, in a state where private property rights are a source of great pride, Kinder Morgan could install the pipeline where they pleased, as long as they paid landowners. For landowners who failed to respond or cooperate, Kinder Morgan followed up with letters of condemnation, meaning they would take the land without the landowners' permission.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ref...nears-end/amp/

The underlying issue is the law, wrote Marissa Patton, the associate Legislative director for the Texas Farm Bureau, in an email to Reform Austin. “Whether or not Kinder Morgan is lowballing landowners, the problem is that the current law would allow them to lowball without any repercussions.”

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Dopo

You are assuming that they have to pay market value for the land
I recommend you do some reading on Texas eminent domain, such as Kinder Morgan 400 mile pipeline through the Hill country.

They do have to pay market value. I'll just quote direct from the Texas statutes on eminent domain.


CHAPTER 21. EMINENT DOMAIN

Sec. 21.042. ASSESSMENT OF DAMAGES. (a) The special commissioners shall assess damages in a condemnation proceeding according to the evidence presented at the hearing.
(b) If an entire tract or parcel of real property is condemned, the damage to the property owner is the local market value of the property at the time of the special commissioners' hearing.


https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PR.21.htm

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

They do have to pay market value. I'll just quote direct from the Texas statutes on eminent domain.


CHAPTER 21. EMINENT DOMAIN

Sec. 21.042. ASSESSMENT OF DAMAGES. (a) The special commissioners shall assess damages in a condemnation proceeding according to the evidence presented at the hearing.
(b) If an entire tract or parcel of real property is condemned, the damage to the property owner is the local market value of the property at the time of the special commissioners' hearing.


https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PR.21.htm

That provision only applies to acquisition of an entire piece of property, not a portion of the property. If only a portion of the property is taken, then the damages may be more than the market value. In other words, if a pipeline is taking 20 acres of a 1000 acre tract, but is destroying a number of 500 year old trees, the value of those trees and the injury to the property owner's enjoyment of the property must be taken into account. Read the rest of section 21.042.

The problem with eminent domain by pipelines, especially, is the pipeline owner always takes the cheapest route, rather than trying to avoid taking large pieces of private property.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

I guess there’s no point on building highways either than amirite?

Well, there are some highways that get built that are probably not worth the cost. I personally enjoy SH 130, but I have to wonder now if its financial pan out as a private project, for example. And the proposed I-14 is a concept that needs to be killed in the womb.

But in general, highways serve a much broader market than one point-to-point passenger-only super-expensive HSR line. So, they already start with better financial odds, even if they were purely privately built.

I'm not against HSR in principle, nor against it having eminent domain powers in general, since other common carriers like freight RRs and pipelines get to do it too (though I know both of those also make people very upset). Since I lean libertarian, equal treatment of law is a big deal to me.

But a privately funded HSR line just doesn't seem financially viable, to me, in the U.S. And apparently the investment world agrees. And it's also not worth publicly funding it either, given that we already have the infrastructure for car and bus travel, plus air travel, between the two cities.

[FreeVilley]

Yes thats the language, but how can you prove Market Value when there is only 1 customer interested in the property and the seller is being forced to sell? The routes for this railway are in the middle of nowhere, going through property no one else wants.

Originally Posted by oceangaia

They do have to pay market value. I'll just quote direct from the Texas statutes on eminent domain.


CHAPTER 21. EMINENT DOMAIN

Sec. 21.042. ASSESSMENT OF DAMAGES. (a) The special commissioners shall assess damages in a condemnation proceeding according to the evidence presented at the hearing.
(b) If an entire tract or parcel of real property is condemned, the damage to the property owner is the local market value of the property at the time of the special commissioners' hearing.


https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PR.21.htm

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by FreeVilley

Yes thats the language, but how can you prove Market Value when there is only 1 customer interested in the property and the seller is being forced to sell? The routes for this railway are in the middle of nowhere, going through property no one else wants.

There are these people called "appraisers" who are hired by mortgage lenders to know how much they can loan for a property and taxing authorities to know how much tax to collect. They tend to use these things called "comps", which are market selling prices of comparable properties.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

Texas should and will have an HSR option, whether its through this, or through the planned Amtrak expansion. I suspect that what you fear is that this will eventually open and be popular, thus opening the floodgates for other high-speed rail systems throughout the South.

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

Foresight isn't a thing that oceangaia does and that's ok - people without foresight and imagination have been throwing stones at others ideas since the beginning of human history. We just laugh and move forward.

I foresaw this project going nowhere and you foresaw it becoming reality. So where does it stand? Where can I buy tickets?

[mojo101]

Originally Posted by SpeedThink

Definitely, the Bullet Train to/from Houston to Dallas is the first step.

Then maybe from/to Houston to Austin.

Years ago, if I am not mistaken, there was a train from Houston to Galveston. This should also be re-visited.

With the net migration increase into Texas, strategically and efficiently moving people within the State via a bullet train appears prudent.

I think people prefer to drive to Galveston as once they get there,they need a car to get around,it is not like Las Vegas,you can ride a cab and go to different casinos