Bridge Street still not safe at night (Montgomery, Decatur: crime, law)

[rae-zor]

Regardless of people's preferences on guns, this is an issue of security and safety and the mall's managements failure to provide it. If they continue not to do so, I'm sure people will take their hard earned money elsewhere. I just hope no one comes to harm in the meantime.

[OmarLittle]

Originally Posted by cyberfox

If everyone carried weapons we would have a lot more dead people. Friends, relatives, etc. I'm just not impressed with people in general or their judgement. I just hope I don't get caught in the crossfire.

Wait! I thought you said something about a Mac10 earlier. Perhaps you were speaking, er, writing, facetiously, although that was not reflected in a follow-up response.

Back on point...without calling into question the judgement or, uh, shooting accuracy of earlier posters, given the choice between a well-lighted and well-patrolled parking, or a shopping mall full of city forum-contributing and CCW-carrying posters, I will choose the former.

[cyberfox]

Originally Posted by OmarLittle

Wait! I thought you said something about a Mac10 earlier. Perhaps you were speaking, er, writing, facetiously, although that was not reflected in a follow-up response.

Back on point...without calling into question the judgement or, uh, shooting accuracy of earlier posters, given the choice between a well-lighted and well-patrolled parking, or a shopping mall full of city forum-contributing and CCW-carrying posters, I will choose the former.

My apologies Omar.... I was using a lot of sarcasm in that post.

I don't believe the answer to this problem is a bunch of gun toting shoppers and workers either. You see.... I have seen several versions of "Gunfight At O.K. Corral" including the live reenactment and it just didn't work out very well.

[writerwife]

Originally Posted by cyberfox

If everyone carried weapons we would have a lot more dead people. Friends, relatives, etc. I'm just not impressed with people in general or their judgement. I just hope I don't get caught in the crossfire.

Though I have been trained in the use of weapons and have at times owned them I fortunately have never lived in an area that I felt I NEEDED one. When that day comes I will start looking to move.

We each have a right to our opinions. I don't know if you're male or female, but...as a female and having seen news clips and programs of women being abducted in all sorts of cities, towns and areas in grocery store parking lots, bank atms, at home in bed, broken down on the side of the road and rarely surviving (and knowing 2 myself), I don't know that there's anywhere that I feel that I should depend on others for my protection.
My position remains as such....Prov 21:31 - The horse is prepared against the day of battle, but safety is of the Lord.

As far as all of the comments though concerning Bridge Street amping up their security, I am in full agreement. That is first and foremost.

[rifleman]

(edited for brevity...)

Originally Posted by writerwife

FYI--
2 weeks ago, my 21 yr old niece, who works at one of the shops at Bridge street was walking to her car after work (side parking lot at night) and realized she was being followed by 3 guys. She started walking faster and they did.... she ran. They ran after her but thank God, she reached her car before they reached her. As she quickly started her car after locking the doors, they were trying to open her doors and break her windows when she was able to take off. Needless to say she was terrified.

Just thought I'd give y'all a heads up in case any of you or yours are there and heading to a car alone in the evening. Forewarned is forearmed.

Originally Posted by bmrisko

CCW Permit...

Originally Posted by dijkstra

I agree with this and have a permit myself. However, what I always tell others before they get a permit and a weapon, be sure in your mind that if the time comes you can and will use it to defend yourself without hesitation. Otherwise, you are potentially giving an offender/attacker a weapon to use on you.

Everyone should have the right to carry a weapon but not everyone should actually carry one.

Exactly. In my small custom gunshop biz, I am now often asked for advice on "Which personal protection firearm (and cartridge) should I pick to carry?" Well, by them simply asking this "loaded" question, I'm already seeing they have not done much reading on it.

There are many potential good choices, but you must be of the right mindset to carry a firearm, not to mention experienced in actual hands-on gun handling, plus be practicing regularly. You just can't buy yourself a Taurus .357 Mag 6" Tracker, slip it "inconspicuously" into your purse and lug it round the mall without it peeking out or worse: falling out onto the counter when you're paying your bill! Yikes!

Plus, you must then practice unlimbering it when you'd least expect or want to (when fumbling for your car keys late at night and when it's also snowing and you're in a hurry and also impatient and annoyed). Or when your purse is slung over your shoulder and both your hands are tucked into nice warm but cumbersome lined mitts and are then tucked into your pockets. How quickly could you actually get a firerarm out and focused on some menacing guy who had all his moves pre-planned?

Do you realize you'll have to have your appropriate defensive moves pre-planned and well practiced so you can IMMEDIATELY and MENACINGLY return his threat, yes??

Originally Posted by ingsoc75

I wouldn't use a Mac 10 as a CCW. It's only legal as a semi-auto (unless you want to go the NFA route and get a full auto but I don't think anyone would want to shell out $3500 plus the $200 tax stamp and 5 month wait while the feds to a background check).

I'm pretty sure the poster was being sarcastic, ingsoc! A MAC 10 as a CCW? Who yah gonna take on? the Israeli MOSSAD Anti-Terrorist squad?

√ Keep whatever you pick relatively small, simple and light. You'll likely never actually have to use it, and if it's too cumbersome or heavy, you'll soon be "forgetting" it at home. On purpose!

√ Keep it simple in operation. No fancy safety systems, releases, levers, springs or pulleys to activate, or "keys" to insert.

√ Stay with lower-recoil close-range cartridges. (Also readily commercially available ones!) No .44 Mags, .40 S&Ws,.45 ACPs, .357 Mags or 45 Long Colts! Yes, if you're an experienced handgunner, you can work with the 45ACP in a +P configuration, or a hot .357 Mag, but this sort of ammo will surely terrify the smaller-framed, lighter (i.e.: female) user who will be easily intimidated by such large recoil and much bigger bang.

Not to mention it can easily hurt her hand or arm if she's not trained & well-practiced enough. Pain does not equate with practice, gents. (BTW, YouTube is full of videos of idiot young men who take their unsuspecting girlfriends out and have them shoot a .454 Casull, for instance! Funny? I don't think so!)

My bottom-line recommendations. 1. 32 ACP minimum) in a small but good quality auto pistol (North American Arms/NAA. or a Kahr or Ruger LCP); a .380 in a number of small auto pistols (also see N.A.A. or SIG).; a .32 H&R Mag in a small Taurus or S&W "J" Frame Revolver (my personal best choice, and what I carry!); 9MM OR .38 SPECIAL, te 9 in a quality auto, or a .38 SPl., but again; always in a quality revolver.

Note: if Glaser Safety Slug type ammo (self-destructs on impact with a wall or car skin) is available in your gun's chambering, by all means use that. It's legally a far better idea, but is still very lethal against the intended target. It just doesn't penetrate a building to kill an innocent behind that wall!

Originally Posted by OmarLittle

My place of employment is close to Bridge Street and does, indeed, have that policy. I feel safer knowing that disgruntled employees (and there are several) are not allowed to have firearms in the workplace. I respect your right to protect yourself outside of the workplace, please respect mine to work in a safe environment.

Omar, if a person has been OK'd to carry, in most states they should have been required to show an understanding of firearms safety (if not in your state, then God help you!). Given that, they should be as safe carrying a firearm as they are drive on the same highway as you, without your being afraid of them. I don't see where they aren't respecting your right to a safe workplace. After all, this thread is about those who are NOT safe in or around their workplace, and they are not armed. Right?

BTW, if you feel someone's personality, actions or comments make them possibly unstable to be carrying a weapon, you can also confidentially advise the local weapons permitting officer, who is then legally obligated to do a quiet investigation, but they may then recall that person's CCW.

Unfortunately for their imaginative creators, the stories of deranged and disgruntled people going nutzo with their legal carry guns have essentially NEVER materialized, all while highway carnage is committed by incapable or drunken drivers every day!

Perhaps you might reconsider your concerns: having a capable firearms owner in your place work may well enhance your safety at work! The vast, vast majority of us are quiet, law-abiding citizens who will usually jump to your immediate aid if you need it!

Originally Posted by dijkstra

Disgruntled workers don't care whether there is a policy or not. If they decide they want to have a shooting spree they don't say "well crap I can't bring my gun to work and shoot those a-holes because the handbook says no firearms." Please tell me you don't really believe you are safer from disgruntled employees because the handbook says you can't have firearms for crying out loud. If they decide they are going to do it and are crazy enough, they are going to do it and you will be a sitting duck.

You are actually at a disadvantage because you are not allowed to have yours for protection in the event of a situation of this type. I would feel more safe knowing I had mine if it was needed.

You would also be surprised if you knew how many people you are around every day that have a firearm on them. There are probably several that you work with that either have them on them or in the car all the time and you don't have a clue. We don't exactly open conversation with "Hey, I'm wearing my 40 cal right now....how are you today?" lmao!

Right on, dijkstra. While one of my Big Corporate Employers, now defunct, forbade ANY firearms on your person while working on their time, I always carried, since I travelled on the highways extensively, and had at least two situations in 8 years where, if I had not been able to "flash" my "piece", I would have been set upon by thugs, out on a rather isolated Pac NW Interstate.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried out by six, eh?

Originally Posted by bmrisko

I've written management several times about incidents that I have witnessed and the overall environment at night and have received no acknowledgement whatsoever. Maybe management figures if they just ignore the issue and turn a blind eye it will fix itself...

Oh, it will, esp. when someone is subsequently hurt and then sues them for lack of action when they should have known better. But do make sure that letter of concern is legally on file with a date-stamped acceptance by HR in your own file. Just by requiring that, they will See the Light, I guarantee it It's called subsequent legal exposure.

Originally Posted by writerwife

You're right, but that is what was suggested to her.

I am of the opinion that my niece should NOT have a gun with her at this point in time for reasons that will go unstated here and, because to my knowledge, she has never even been around guns. After some training and firearm safety classes...maybe.

My daughter on the other hand, has been through all of that and is capable and personally, I'd feel better if she did carry (aside from the issues at work).

Anyone that lives or has lived in this house knows how to handle a gun. My husband insists on it seeing as we have several. He has the credos.

I am always quite concerned if someone wants to carry a lethal weapon but does not want to take the necessary time to completely familiarize themselves with 1) the firearm and it's safe operation; 2) it's use in various situations of range, lighting and situation, and perhaps most importantly, 3) all the legal ramifications, do's and Do-NOTs associated with the use of lethal force (firearms, chemical or edged-weapons; it's all the same to the law..).

If they only want to carry "something dangerous-looking!" and then assume they are safe, I encourage them to utilize other means: a pepper spray weapon (non lethal), or at the most dangerous, a electric stun type weapon (Taser™ or?), bu NOt a firearm. THis will only likely lead to their own injury or at the least legal problems on a major scale!

Else they must hone their firearms skill levels through monthly practice at a safe range, and then they can be safer and far more confident out on the mean and lonely (oh, and usually dark...) streets.

Have fun! Stay safe! Aim Carefully!

[Reactionary]

OmarLittle = "given the choice between a well-lighted and well-patrolled parking, or a shopping mall full of city forum-contributing and CCW-carrying posters, I will choose the former."

Good thing -you- don't get to choose whether or not people carry.

[dijkstra]

Originally Posted by OmarLittle

Back on point...without calling into question the judgement or, uh, shooting accuracy of earlier posters, given the choice between a well-lighted and well-patrolled parking, or a shopping mall full of city forum-contributing and CCW-carrying posters, I will choose the former.

I am with Reactionary, I'm glad you don't get to make the choice whether others carry.

What humors me though is your perception that you aren't around people with guns all the time. I can assure you that you would be astonished at how many people you are around daily that have guns on them or very nearby and you would really be shocked at how many you are around when you are at shopping centers such as Bridgestreet. Heck, I know people that wear two; a larger caliber handgun and a smaller backup.

[OmarLittle]

Hey, lighten up you guys! I never said anything about infringing on your rights. In fact, I think it would be terrific if all those CCW-bearing individuals at Bridge Street bring with them a level of responsibility exhibited by rifleman's earlier post. My concern is the casual encouragement of the use of lethal weapons (without the critical caveats about responsibility and safety) featured earlier in this thread. Meanwhile, for those of you out there with too many handguns, may I suggest
an alternative...

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by OmarLittle

Hey, lighten up you guys! I never said anything about infringing on your rights. In fact, I think it would be terrific if all those CCW-bearing individuals at Bridge Street bring with them a level of responsibility exhibited by rifleman's earlier post. My concern is the casual encouragement of the use of lethal weapons (without the critical caveats about responsibility and safety) featured earlier in this thread. Meanwhile, for those of you out there with too many handguns, may I suggest
an alternative...

Omar,

May I offer a word of advice? When you're in a hole... STOP DIGGING !

[FiveDime]

Originally Posted by OmarLittle

...If someone wants to avail themselves of their right to bear arms, I guess that's OK. But maybe some of us (perhaps writerwife's 21 year-old niece) would rather have a well-lighted and well-patrolled parking lot than to worry about having a loaded pistol in her purse...

Well, I'd like to have the right six numbers when I drive up to Tennessee on Saturday. But I would suggest the odds of Bridge Street providing a "well-lighted and well-patrolled" parking lot are only marginally better than my odds of choosing the right six numbers. I would go even further in saying that even if said "lights and security" did exist, we would once again be at very poor odds that either would prevent a determined attacker from harming his chosen victim. I'm sure security could do a bang-up job of phoning police, who will in turn do a stellar job of making a report after any incident (mind you, I am very pro-LEO, I simply recognize they have neither the legal obligation nor the ability to be everywhere at all times and protect everyone). So...I continue to go to work every weekday, and to carry a firearm when I feel a need or desire to do so.

Originally Posted by cyberfox

If everyone carried weapons we would have a lot more dead people. Friends, relatives, etc. I'm just not impressed with people in general or their judgement. I just hope I don't get caught in the crossfire...

Thank you for providing us with this textbook example of projection. Please feel free not to carry if you are so determined, but please also refrain from judging those others whom you know NOTHING.
_________________________________________________

Finally, independent of the two quoted passages, I would state that I would expect anyone heeding a suggestion to carry a gun for defensive purposes ensure they have achieved an adequate level of competency in its use, and the appropriate temperament and mindset to do so lawfully. Frankly, I would hope such a statement would be so obvious it need not be made...but perhaps I am a victim of my own projection in this matter.