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It's not only humanitarian, but also a longer term economic stance as well. If you create an underclass, you're essentially decreasing the number of consumers. With the demographic quagmire we're in (a decreasing number of Whites and Blacks) we need to look as who the future middle class consumers can and will be. Thus, we need to address the issue of illegal in such a way that tries to promote people to the middle class. This fosters stability and creates our consumer class, the economic basis of America.
Like I said, it's not a simple problem. Read Planet of the Slums. It really does show the what happens when a nation loses that consumer class.
Emotionality runs on both sides. The hardcore La Raza and the hyper patriotic are simply opposite ends of the spectrum, yet with the same fervor. This is not to call anyone any names. Just simply stating how I feel about extremists. The more you shout and the more you cling on to ideology and not look at every moving part, the more your argument becomes laughable...again this goes to both sides.
How is retaining millions of uneducated and unskilled illegals living in poverty going to transmit into more middle class citizens? Even their children and anchors don't seem to be faring much better. They have high dropout rates in school and start having babies at an early age who become welfare dependents.
Americans are procreating at replacement levels. We should be stablizing our population growth or even decreasing it, not increasing it. There are more things to consider than more consumers and a bigger economy to fit a larger population. Ever heard of the term "carrying capacity" of a nation?
No, I already know enough about the pitfalls of illegal immigration and making them legal compared to any so-called advantages of it. Unlike some, I don't have tunnel vision for my country. I don't think in terms of just today but of tomorrow also. The only answer is to continue with enforcement, securing our borders and making life undesirable for them here and many if not most will self-deport and it will deter many more from continuing to come. Another amnesty would be the worse mistake we could ever make.
That may or not be the case. Basically that's a baseless assumption the total percentage that never applied for a visa.
Again, it's this simplistic argument (which seems to now dominate every facet of politics) that takes nothing else into account that is truly doing harm in our nation.
Immigration reform will be impossible if you simply come from a standpoint of emotion.
We don't need immigration reform. We need immigration enforcement reform, and you will see that in the next Congress.
People like you that think you can make an economic argument for the conquest of America by Mexico and Mexicans are sadly mistaken. I would gladly pay higher prices if all the uninvited illegals would go home and let us maintain our sovereignty.
There are other things. However, actually getting to the root cause of illegal immigration means examining the root causes of global wealth disparities. That would mean a MASSIVE global economic restructuring.
The US is not the answer for corrupt foreign Goverments,they need to deal with their own problems. The US needs to scale back Foreign Aid and meddling in other areas and deal with itself first.Lots of the Worlds problems stem from the US propping up and supporting corrupt regimes in the past and it's come back to haunt us.
If you opened up an Ag. program for foreign workers from Africa,Easten Europe and Asia we would be better off than dealing with the ingrates we've gotten from Mexico that demand freebies and fictitous rights.
People from all over the world would jump to work in the USA, and we can hold back half their wages until they return to their homelands afterwards.
I doubt if we had Sudanese,Thai,Romanian or other Agriculture workers in the fields that we would see these idiotic demands made for special treatment and Dreamie BS that we see
now.
BTW for every Dreamie, how many of them have Gang Banging,Tagging and other criminal Illegal relatives here that they would help support and protect. These guys won't be honest and answer that question because you know that they will stand by their large extended and often times Illegal Familia.
We don't need immigration reform. We need immigration enforcement reform, and you will see that in the next Congress.
People like you that think you can make an economic argument for the conquest of America by Mexico and Mexicans are sadly mistaken. I would gladly pay higher prices if all the uninvited illegals would go home and let us maintain our sovereignty.
and it that higher enforcement component illegals and their advocates fear the most as it's not REALLY a "path to citizenship" they want (because that entails RESPONSIBILITIES as well as benefits) but rather the "right" to maintain the status quo but be allowed to remain here as illegals without having to fear deportation etc.
The US is not the answer for corrupt foreign Goverments,they need to deal with their own problems. The US needs to scale back Foreign Aid and meddling in other areas and deal with itself first.Lots of the Worlds problems stem from the US propping up and supporting corrupt regimes in the past and it's come back to haunt us.
If you opened up an Ag. program for foreign workers from Africa,Easten Europe and Asia we would be better off than dealing with the ingrates we've gotten from Mexico that demand freebies and fictitous rights.
People from all over the world would jump to work in the USA, and we can hold back half their wages until they return to their homelands afterwards.
I doubt if we had Sudanese,Thai,Romanian or other Agriculture workers in the fields that we would see these idiotic demands made for special treatment and Dreamie BS that we see
now.
BTW for every Dreamie, how many of them have Gang Banging,Tagging and other criminal Illegal relatives here that they would help support and protect. These guys won't be honest and answer that question because you know that they will stand by their large extended and often times Illegal Familia.
here for your edification is a list of the countries eligible under the current Ag visas..........quite the diversified list isn't it?
Quote:
H-2A Eligible Countries List
H-2A petitions may only be approved for nationals of countries that the Secretary of Homeland Security has designated, with the concurrence of the Secretary of State, as eligible to participate in the H-2A program.* The list of H-2A eligible countries is published in a notice in the Federal Register (FR) by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) on a rolling basis. Designation of countries on the H-2A list of eligible countries will be valid for one year from publication. Effective of January 19, 2010, nationals from the following countries are eligible to participate in the H-2A Program: Argentina, Australia, Belize, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Ethioipia, Guatemala, Honduras, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Jamaica, Japan, Lithuania, Mexico, Moldova, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, and Uruguay.
A national from a country not on the list may only be the beneficiary of an approved H-2A petition if the Secretary of Homeland Security determines that it is in the U.S. interest for that alien to be the beneficiary of such a petition. [See 8 CFR 214.2(h)(2)(iii) and (5)(i)(F)(1)(ii) for additional evidentiary requirements.]
The ONLY reason people think it's ONLY for Mexican/South Americans is because they're closer and cost less to transport here.
How is retaining millions of uneducated and unskilled illegals living in poverty going to transmit into more middle class citizens? Even their children and anchors don't seem to be faring much better. They have high dropout rates in school and start having babies at an early age who become welfare dependents.
Americans are procreating at replacement levels. We should be stablizing our population growth or even decreasing it, not increasing it. There are more things to consider than more consumers and a bigger economy to fit a larger population. Ever heard of the term "carrying capacity" of a nation?
No, I already know enough about the pitfalls of illegal immigration and making them legal compared to any so-called advantages of it. Unlike some, I don't have tunnel vision for my country. I don't think in terms of just today but of tomorrow also. The only answer is to continue with enforcement, securing our borders and making life undesirable for them here and many if not most will self-deport and it will deter many more from continuing to come. Another amnesty would be the worse mistake we could ever make.
The first paragraph was one of the main tenants of apartheid. Americans are not at replacement levels. Immigrants are def. shouldering the burden. We should not decrease population. That would mean economic suicide. Look at Japan. The government is wondering how it will compete. Robots are good for some things, but not others. Also, one question came up in parliament, who will service these robots? What about the lack of nurses to take care of old people? Clearly decreasing population is not a good idea.
Carrying capacity is bunk. It's a vestige of Malthus. There are huge flaws in that argument. Tech and medical advances namely.
You kind of do have tunnel vision. You clearly want a smaller nation and have don't believe that proper investment could rectify some of the social issues you stated in your first paragraph. Not to mention you used the term "the only answer..." Meaning that, in your mind, there is only one answer. That's rather narrow.
The first paragraph was one of the main tenants of apartheid. Americans are not at replacement levels. Immigrants are def. shouldering the burden. We should not decrease population. That would mean economic suicide. Look at Japan. The government is wondering how it will compete. Robots are good for some things, but not others. Also, one question came up in parliament, who will service these robots? What about the lack of nurses to take care of old people? Clearly decreasing population is not a good idea.
Carrying capacity is bunk. It's a vestige of Malthus. There are huge flaws in that argument. Tech and medical advances namely.
You kind of do have tunnel vision. You clearly want a smaller nation and have don't believe that proper investment could rectify some of the social issues you stated in your first paragraph. Not to mention you used the term "the only answer..." Meaning that, in your mind, there is only one answer. That's rather narrow.
So your advocacy for higher population growth is based on having a larger economy without factoring in all the social and resource demands that a larger population puts on a society? If at any point our population drops so low that we are becoming barren then we will increase our LEGAL immigration quotas. Right now we import 1.5 million of them without jobs and resources to support them. Carrying capacity isn't bunk. It makes a lot of sense.
No, you are the one with tunnel vision. How does uncontrolled illegal immigration from poor countries having large families help this country in anyway? Poverty begets poverty.
We are a rule of law nation and YES the only solution is see that illegal aliens leave our country and that immigration only occurs legally.
So your advocacy for higher population growth is based on having a larger economy without factoring in all the social and resource demands that a larger population puts on a society? If at any point our population drops so low that we are becoming barren then we will increase our LEGAL immigration quotas. Right now we import 1.5 million of them without jobs and resources to support them. Carrying capacity isn't bunk. It makes a lot of sense.
No, you are the one with tunnel vision. How does uncontrolled illegal immigration from poor countries having large families help this country in anyway? Poverty begets poverty.
We are a rule of law nation and YES the only solution is see that illegal aliens leave our country and that immigration only occurs legally.
You're right carrying capacity isn't bunk, it's complete bunk. It is too hard to accurately determine carrying capacity. There's IPAT, but the T for technology is too hard to determine accurately. If anything, we have the opposite problem. Too many old people (social security and pensions need to be paid, thus we need productive population of young people).
You're the one who is using language like "only" and constructing arguments that are presented in ultimatums. That's tunnel vision.
Poverty doesn't beget poverty. There are other factors. It's def. not that simple.
You're right carrying capacity isn't bunk, it's complete bunk. It is too hard to accurately determine carrying capacity. There's IPAT, but the T for technology is too hard to determine accurately. If anything, we have the opposite problem. Too many old people (social security and pensions need to be paid, thus we need productive population of young people).
You're the one who is using language like "only" and constructing arguments that are presented in ultimatums. That's tunnel vision.
Poverty doesn't beget poverty. There are other factors. It's def. not that simple.
Japan isn't a good example. They allow very little immigration into their country. We allow a lot in per year.
With uncontrolled population growth via illegal immigration or too much legal immigration who is going to support them in their old age? It will be a never ending cycle of baby boomers for the young to have to support.
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