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Or even better yet, don't allow our colleges and universities to enroll foreign students unless they offer the spot to an American first. We have plenty of Americans that are turned down for admission that would love to take these spots. This way there is no visa overstay, no degree holder moving back to China. Only an American with a degree that otherwise wouldn't have had one.
Probably because education is a business here, no business will shoot down anybody willing to pay. Especially with the rediculously high $$$$$$$ of education here.
Countries have always pointed their ICBMs at other countries long before visas existed. This issue has nothing to do with visas. Do not use this nonsense to scare people. Skilled people from foreign countries apply and receive permission to come and work here legally every year. The system works. The people who overstay their visas are as illegal as those who cross the border illegally. Do not make excuses for law breakers and expect people to agree with you.
I'll quote you however I please. I never promised not to be a yellow journalist.
Visa overstays are morally the same as border crossers, yes, but the law treats them differently. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but you can't change that fact. There are different legal consequences for overstaying a visa than there are for entering without inspection.
Please explain to me how you can say "the system works" when we are sending hundreds of thousands of highly-skilled workers overseas--where the cost of living is lower (and thus the cost of engineering man-hours is lower)--to compete with our highly-skilled workers here at home?
I'm not trying to scare you by talking about nukes. I'm trying to scare you by pointing out the truth. You can substitute "computers" or "aeroplanes" for ICBM's if you like. The argument is just as scary.
Last edited by sponger42; 07-30-2007 at 01:14 PM..
Reason: The first post sounded dumb. :p
Please explain to me how you can say "the system works" when we are sending hundreds of thousands of highly-skilled workers overseas--where the cost of living is lower (and thus the cost of engineering man-hours is lower)--to compete with our highly-skilled workers here at home?
What kind of drugs are you smoking? I have no idea what you are trying to ask? You are not one them Indian workers taking jobs from Americans, are you? What highly-skilled workers are we sending overseas? Are you talking about people who are not legal residents or citizens? Maybe we are them sending overseas because they don't have the right to be here, duh.
People, visas let greedy companies destroy the lives of American workers by giving jobs to foreign workers who work for less. They will lie through the teeth about their true intention when they ask for for more visas to bring in more foreign workers to displace American workers. They will say it's good for America when foreigners are doing American jobs. Remember what the pro illegal alien immigration say when they defend the stealing of American jobs "They only do jobs Americans won't do." Well, the pro illegal alien immigration through visa overstay obviously can't use the same excuse. So they will say something along the lines of "Foreign workers are good for America." or "We need these skilled foreign workers for the good of the economy." Never mind that Americans are being displaced by these foreign workers. Never mind that Americans engineers and computer programmers are still among the best in the world.
Read this to see how this one politician hurts American workers by helping with the outsourcing of American jobs:
You are not one them Indian workers taking jobs from Americans, are you? What highly-skilled workers are we sending overseas? Are you talking about people who are not legal residents or citizens? Maybe we are sending overseas because they don't have the right to be here, duh.
Okay, I'll try to address this one more time as clearly as I can. Please read slowly and carefully. I'll number the steps of this process for clarity.
I'll use a Chinese Engineering BS Student as an example.
1. A Chinese citizen attends a prestegious US Engineering school and graduates with a BS in Mechanical Engineering.
2. He applies for a job in the R&D department at Ford, with a starting salary of $50,000/year plus health benefits. An equally-qualified US Citizen also applies.
3. He simultaneously applies for a H1-B visa as the first step toward obtaining a Green Card to become a citizen.
4. His H1-B application is rejected due to low quotas. The job goes to the US Citizen. Hooray.
5. The Chinese Engineer now returns to China and accepts a position at a Ford R&D subsidiary branch located in his homeland. The job pays an equiviliant of $10,000/year US and has mandatory unpaid overtime and no additional benefits.
6. Ford closes it's R&D operations in the United States thanks to the fact that it can get an equally-qualified equally-educated worker at less than 1/5th the cost by shipping work to China. The US workers are out on the street, because you can't live (or pay off your student loans) on $10,000/year here, and the Chinese Engineer is working under much worse conditions than if he could have stayed in the US.
This is a broken system. It does not work, except to make more money for the CEO's who ship American jobs overseas.
I propose that we ELIMINATE skilled worker visas and replace them with automatic Green Cards for college graduates. That will keep the engineering talent and jobs here in the United States. Let the US citizens compete with their foreign-born counterparts on an equal footing! If a Chinese engineer loves his homeland so much that he still wants to go home and work for pennies on the dollar (after paying massive out-of-state, out-of-country educational costs), let him. Otherwise, give him incentives to stay here and keep the jobs/taxes/talent in the United States.
Sure, it means more immigrants, but importing and welcoming skilled immigrants willing to study/work hard and make money has always been one of the wheels that drive our economic engine. We are not doing that today. That policy needs to change.
As for the Visa overstays: those who have graduated with useful degrees and found gainful employment should be allowed to stay and provided with a path to legalize and become citizens.
People here on student visas who did/are not complete[ing] their degrees and are just coasting, or tourist visa overstays who did the same thing should not be allowed to stay. I agree with you there.
Okay, I'll try to address this one more time as clearly as I can. Please read slowly and carefully. I'll number the steps of this process for clarity.
I'll use a Chinese Engineering BS Student as an example.
1. A Chinese citizen attends a prestegious US Engineering school and graduates with a BS in Mechanical Engineering.
2. He applies for a job in the R&D department at Ford, with a starting salary of $50,000/year plus health benefits. An equally-qualified US Citizen also applies.
3. He simultaneously applies for a H1-B visa as the first step toward obtaining a Green Card to become a citizen.
4. His H1-B application is rejected due to low quotas. The job goes to the US Citizen. Hooray.
5. The Chinese Engineer now returns to China and accepts a position at a Ford R&D subsidiary branch located in his homeland. The job pays an equiviliant of $10,000/year US and has mandatory unpaid overtime and no additional benefits.
6. Ford closes it's R&D operations in the United States thanks to the fact that it can get an equally-qualified equally-educated worker at less than 1/5th the cost by shipping work to China. The US workers are out on the street, because you can't live (or pay off your student loans) on $10,000/year here, and the Chinese Engineer is working under much worse conditions than if he could have stayed in the US.
This is a broken system. It does not work, except to make more money for the CEO's who ship American jobs overseas.
I propose that we ELIMINATE skilled worker visas and replace them with automatic Green Cards for college graduates. That will keep the engineering talent and jobs here in the United States. Let the US citizens compete with their foreign-born counterparts on an equal footing! If a Chinese engineer loves his homeland so much that he still wants to go home and work for pennies on the dollar (after paying massive out-of-state, out-of-country educational costs), let him. Otherwise, give him incentives to stay here and keep the jobs/taxes/talent in the United States.
Sure, it means more immigrants, but importing and welcoming skilled immigrants willing to study/work hard and make money has always been one of the wheels that drive our economic engine. We are not doing that today. That policy needs to change.
As for the Visa overstays: those who have graduated with useful degrees and found gainful employment should be allowed to stay and provided with a path to legalize and become citizens.
People here on student visas who did/are not complete[ing] their degrees and are just coasting, or tourist visa overstays who did the same thing should not be allowed to stay. I agree with you there.
That actually makes a lot of sense and not really a bad idea. At least it would keep the jobs here and eventually we would have an intelligent and gainfully employed citizen, unlike the southern border crossers who mooch off of the country.
Anyone who mooches off the country should be deported. I'll certainly agree with that. If you want to narrow it to non-citizens who mooch off the country, I'll agree to that too.
I believe that immigration/citizenship should be closely tied to employment. If you can't find a job here, you shouldn't stay here. If you do find a job, you should be allowed to bring your nuclear family (spouse, kids). No aunts or uncles. Currently, the system has a backlogged wait time of about 20 years for foreign Aunts, Uncles, and Grandparents of US citizens. I think that's just fine.
It's not like we're going to be flooded with Indians or Chinese if we pursue this policy, either, since it costs a small (American) fortune, and a LARGE (Chinese/Indian/Developing Nation) fortune to send someone to school here.
Make no mistake, our Universities are vacuuming up money from the wealthy families who can afford to send their children here for their education. Now, if we can just fix the system to vacuume up their talented hardworking kids too (and send the ones who are lazy leeches home) we'll be set.
That actually makes a lot of sense and not really a bad idea. At least it would keep the jobs here and eventually we would have an intelligent and gainfully employed citizen, unlike the southern border crossers who mooch off of the country.
No, no, no. I can't believe you fell for that. Greedy companies began outsourcing job long ago. They didn't just do it recently when they couldn't hire some visa overstaying illegal alien foreign worker. Did you read the article I posted? If you haven't, please read it. Find American workers who lost their jobs because of cheap foreign competitions right here on their own soil. Ask them how they feel. I have a better solution: pass legislations that prohibit job-outsourcing and work visas.
No, no, no. I can't believe you fell for that. Greedy companies began outsourcing job long ago. They didn't just do it recently when they couldn't hire some visa overstaying illegal alien foreign worker. Did you read the article I posted? If you haven't, please read it. Find American workers who lost their jobs because of cheap foreign competitions right here on their own soil. Ask them how they feel. I have a better solution: pass legislations that prohibit job-outsourcing and work visas.
I would love a law that would make it illegal for any company to outsource anything to anywhere outside of the country. I would also personally like to see all Visas stopped, whether for education or work. I think we should only allow them for visitation and only for up to 3 months and they go home. I only said that his idea is not bad only because I did not see any other great ideas. It really makes no difference at all since the government is out to make the middle calss be gone completely. That is why they are alloowing so many illegals into the country. The illegals run the wages downward so far that they know that an American citizen can't afford to work for that amount because we don't live 4-12 families to a single family residence. I am all for getting all foreign internentions out of this country and fast. GHow about also telling them to stop selling our toll-roads and any land to countries like China and Spain. Good luck on that.
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