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Old 10-15-2007, 06:24 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 15,329,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
I'm in the process of becoming a Mexican citizen.
Of course, you COULD just sneak across the border and become an ILLEGAL resident of Mexico....(perhaps you'd be called a "seco")....
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:24 PM
 
457 posts, read 341,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
I'm in the process of becoming a Mexican citizen.

You're renouncing your American citizenship for a mexican one?!?!? We should have a new policy in the US: for each person that renounces their US citzenship has to take 5 ILLEGAL mexicans back with them. :-)
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:33 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,970,161 times
Reputation: 1287
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApisces View Post
You're renouncing your American citizenship for a mexican one?!?!? We should have a new policy in the US: for each person that renounces their US citzenship has to take 5 ILLEGAL mexicans back with them. :-)
I think they can have dual citizenship (not sure how it works).

Quote:
In 1998, Mexico, which had previously discouraged dual citizenship, passed a law declaring that any persons born in Mexico, or born to Mexican nationals wherever they reside, can claim Mexican citizenship even if they are citizens of another country.

A more recent law permits absentee voting in Mexican elections. The upshot of these changes is that millions of Hispanics could be eligible to vote in Mexico's elections, as well as U.S. elections.
Number of dual citizens in U.S. soaring
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:45 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,442,952 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApisces View Post
You're renouncing your American citizenship for a mexican one?!?!? We should have a new policy in the US: for each person that renounces their US citzenship has to take 5 ILLEGAL mexicans back with them. :-)
Whos renouncing? Who'd be stupid enough to do that? Theres something called Duel Citizenship. no problem with that.

PS I know your being sarcastic
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:33 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,744,008 times
Reputation: 1432
Quote:
Originally Posted by happymom4 View Post
Personally I think alot of Amercian Citizens are tired of hearing what mexico has to say on the subject. mexico seems to be pro-illegal immigration. I know I for one am sick of hearing Fox and his demands on my country for his citizens.
I don't blame you happymom, I'm sick too (and I think most mexicans are) of hearing Fox speaking about anything, thank God he is not the president anymore, this guy has a complete lack of common sense, every time he opens his big mouth he embarasses my dear country and it's people!!

Even though Ilegal immigration from Mexico to the States is a problem that existed before him, he contributed to make it much worse, I mean this guy thinks most american citizens would like to have an open border policy between our countries (if someone doesn't believe me just read his newest book, it was published in english) you need to be stupid or delusional to believe this, although I don't know maybe if he had tried a different approach things could have been different, maybe if he had started recognizing that there is something wrong in Mexico which makes thousands of people leave their homes every year and tried to fix it, but I mean REALLY TRIED showing proof that during his term immigration to the USA reduced by 25% or more, then maybe most american citizens would have tried to do something too, but again this is America's decision not Mexico and I believe America has the right as we do, to decide how to handle this situation.

Honestly the only reason we voted this guy in, was because we were so desperate to break with the PRI 71 year old regime that he was the lesser evil, however I don't regret having voting him in because it started a lot of positive changes in Mexico, Rome wasn't erected in one day so it would have been childish to think that mexico was going to be a first world country just because he won, however I always hated the idea that he sees himself as the bringer of democracy to Mexico, I guess he forgot about WHO voted him in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PApisces View Post
A Pro-ILLEGAL supporter definitively stated their position NBC 5 News in Dallas last night during the coverage of the rallies in Irving yesterday: "This was mexico before, and it is mexico now."

That seems to be not only the opinion of the Pro-Illegals, but of mexico's government. And no offense to you Fella, as I am certain that every Mexican citizen does not share the opinions of it's govt just as every American does not share the views of our govt.

What I would like to know is this: How does the average Mexican citizen such as yourself feel about the treatment of the Illegals forced to come to the U.S. in desperation feel about the Mexican govt's inaction? Thank you for sticking around these forums. I personally value your opinions. :-)
This is soooo true PApsices, I think that most of middle class mexicans are against ilegal immigration too, why? because we read the news everyday about the deaths at the border, we hear the stories about americans being killed or maimed by irresponsible ilegal immigrants, we are aware of the growing hostility in America towards ilegal immigration, however Mexico is a big country and it doesn't have an homogeneous, culture, ethnicity or background as most people think, so I guess some people are against ilegal immigration, some are support it (mostly because of ignorance) and some couldn't care less, but believe me, there is a lot of people who cares, and there are a lot of marches and manifestations here in all the states about mexican's government inaction on this issue, I think that it is important that our American friends are aware of this.

I value and respect your opinions too PApisces!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PApisces View Post
"WE" never "needed' them. Big business chose to use them and the govt turned a blind eye to the issue, in favor of Big Business's desire to pay bottom dollar for labor and charge top dollar for the fruits of the ILLEGALS labor.. In fact, big business and the govt STILL are. We, the People, are not any longer.
This is a thorny and complex issue, imho ilegal immigration is not needed because it only brings problems, hostility and suffering it can be desirable to some because it allows big business to keep making bigger profits, however imho some legal controlled migration is required and desirable between Mexico and the United states, we have lots of american immigrants here too, Mexico's the country that has the biggest amount of americans living abroad but it is way easier to immigrate to Mexico being american than to Immigrate to America being mexican, so I guess something could be done to create more chances for would be migrants of both countries to do it legally, safely and orderly, but that's just my humble opinion.

I believe that if this problem has grown so big it is because our governments erratic policies, the Mexican government didn't care about it's citizens for so long because it didn't have to, they just kept sucking in oil profits, instead (which is supposedly property of all mexican citizens) and let most of the country run lawless and wild, I guess that for them illegal immigration was some sort of escape valve which gave more time to the old regime and because the fact it brought millions of american dollars into mexican economy, but I think that the American government has his share of responsibility too, because it's immigration policy has been erratic at best, during the great depression ilegals were kicked out by thousands, but when America got involved in World War II it was the american government who designed the bracero program in order to bring mexican workers to american factories which desperately needed the workforce, then war ended and all those immigrants stayed in some kind of legal limbo, some returned to Mexico, some became American citizens, and others remained ilegal for a long time while others were just kicked out , then came those massive amnesties and now we have the fence, but at the same time, there are city mayors, federal judges and even the president getting in the way of measures aimed to curb ilegal immigration, so I guess that our governments don't really care much about us, they just care about how to remain in power, they tell people what they want to hear when elections are near, they pretend to do things that people want when, elections are even nearer, but on our backs they do exactly the opposite, I also think that this immigration dialogue has been hijacked by them, when we the citizens, the ones who are suffering the effects of ilegal immigration should be the ones talking about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PApisces View Post
I don't give half a care what the mexican govt thinks. But, I care about what folks like Fella has to say. CHANGE will only occur if the Mexican citizens start pressuring their own govt to change, forcibly so, through revolution, if nescessary.
Exactly, and that's what we are doing, I don't think revolution would do us any good, because it would just bring more poverty, chaos and destruction, more people would be trying (legally or illegally) to leave Mexico until the things settle down, i think it would also have nasty effects on american economy, because both are very interdependant, imagine oil shortages in America, and American businesses suffering huge looses because their investments are being destroyed by revolutionary or government forces, it could get nasty!

And who guarantees us that revolution winners will rule mexico with honesty and justice, that they will start a government of the people by the people and for the people, Mexico could turn out into a Cuba or Venezuela, so I don't think it would be a very good idea, I do believe however that a peaceful revolution is under way, I know my country well and I know how things are improving, it won't be a cakewalk to solve all it's problems but we are on the right track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choctaw2 View Post
I would like to know that too and is it possible for you to be heard by your own government concerning your issues. Will they even care? You as the OP sound like you care what is going on with this issue. What are you doing to encourage you Powers that Be to make things better in your counbtry so your people can live comfortalby there?
Hi Choctaw, well I'm just a human being full of flaws just like most of you I don't hold the absolute truth or have the solutions in my hands, neither I believe I do, however we have to start somewhere and that is why I decided to join the debate, and I hope something good sparks out of it

Let me tell you however I strongly believe in God and the power of prayer, I pray to God everyday for world peace, and for harmony and understanding between each of us, their children, I'm sure most of people here believes in God too and if we join together in prayer we can be witness of miracles, I know that there is a lot people here that don't believe in him, but why don't give it a try, you might be surprised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumnbreze View Post
I am confused. Why would a Mexican citizen feel they should have a right to say anything about US gov't issues? The bigger issue is why isn't Mexico looking to create opportunities for their country so their citizens wouldn't want to come to the US illegally?
Hi Autumbreeze, I don't feel I have a right to meddle in America's afairs because that would be a lack of respect, however I believe that we have a shared problem here and it would be positive to talk about it, exchange experiences and think about some solutions together, this experience has been really positive for me so far, because I've learnt that this is not a discrimination or racism issue, but a rightful claim of people who's been affected because of this phenomenon, obviously like macmeal mentioned, there are some racist people who see this as a chance to discriminate without fear of being questioned, but I think that most of Americans do no fit in this category, also after reading vivski story I became strongly convinced that Ilegal immigration is wrong, I had my doubts before, but after reading her story I pictured myself in her shoes and I was able to understand why this became such a big issue, and why is people so angry about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
This is a brave thought, and one not often heard. Off the top of my head, I'd say it would take much more personal bravery for a Mexican citizen to get involved in this than for an American, largely due to the two nations' differing cultures. Mexican culture has far more a sense of ethnic solidarity than modern-day America has. There's more of a feeling of "family". An attack, or a criticism, against any aspect of Mexican life is seen as an attack on Mexicans.
In the US, by contrast, the sense of solidarity is very low. Americans feel little sense that we are a "family". We often loudly and viciously attack our fellow citizens without feeling like we're being disloyal Americans. In fact, one of the consistent ideas of the most strident voices against illegal immigration here in the US, is that we Americans "ought to realize we are being invaded". Somehow, though, few Americans see this as a true invasion, simply because we don't see ourselves as a united group with any sort of a common cause.

It is a worthy idea, though, and hopefully as Mexico modernizes, Mexicans will come more and more to view themselves as individuals, rather than "Mexicans", and will feel free to criticize government policies without seeing themselves as being disloyal to their country.

Good thread, Travelling Fella.....
Exactly macmeal! I don't think that speaking out of things that are wrong is being disloyal to my country, it would be as ridiculous as saying that american citizens who are against the war on iraq are unamerican, I think that people in my country who supports ilegal immigration do so because of ignorance and I don't think they are much of them, I don't think most of ilegals support it either, they just do it because they are unable to do it legally, and because of the myth that they won't find any opportunities for a better life in their own country, but did they make the effort to look for them, or just decided it was better to immigrate ilegally and endure all those hardships than trying? I know things are hard here, specially for poor people they are much more harder than they are in the States, but are they harder than risking your life to cross the border? and once there facing a lifetime hiding and being rejected? I don't know, but I do know a lot of successful self made people who raised from misery thanks to hard work and a untameable willpower here in Mexico

I like your posts a lot macmeal! It's a blessing that you know both cultures and societies very well, you can do a lot to help build brigdes of understanding between us, es un placer compartir este foro contigo amigo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by faith10 View Post
No, Mexican citizens should not get involved because illegal immigration is America's problem. Mexican citizens in Mexico have done the right thing morally by staying in their own country. The two Mexican presidents have tried to get Mexican citizens involved and tried to tell America what to do, but they are wrong, and Mexicans should try next time to get a moral president that helps his people in Mexico and is not intent on breaking American laws in order to get Mexico's 2nd biggest source of income.
Hi Faith, imho most of mexicans who stay in Mexico don't do it because of morality, we simply don't think our lifes will get a signiicant improvement that would be worth all the trouble to move north and also because we like it here, there is also a lot of very poor people that would see significant changes in their lifes and would never think of leaving because they love their homeland, however I believe that this problem is a shared one because it affects both countries and I don't think a dialogue between citizens would do any harm, at least is much more positive to have a constructive debate here in the forums than those protests we've all being watching in the news, I agree with you that the former two mexican presidents were stupid sending the message that they supported illegal immigration, but I do want to believe that Calderon is a wiser man, so far he's doing the right things to get the economy in the right track, taxes were raised recently to fund ambitious development programs, and there was a fight between states because they decided to redistribute income so poorer states which are heavy exporters of mexicans could have a bigger budget, I think that when calderon said that some ilegal immigration to the united states was unavoidable at this time he wasn't saying that he supported it, just that it will take time until the economy becomes prosperous enough to end the phenomenon, I don't know how long it'll take but I think we should expect to see a decrease in illegall immigration in the following years

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
All of the posters here are "good guys," we just have some different points of view.
Yes exactly, and it is great that we have this place to talk about those points of view, even though I just recently met you guys I'm very glad I did, I value and respect very much all your opinions and I hope you find mines useful, I want to keep getting to know every one of you better


Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Being a legal Mexican citizen of the United States, I try to share my opinion on the immigration issue. But where I draw the line is joining those marches. I will not combat against my own American people.
You are doing the right thing imho Macmeal, as a Mexican I can personally say that this culture of disrespect for laws has done a great harm to Mexico, I personally believe that it is a big problem to have that much people living in the US and something has to be done about it, but I don't think those marches are the way to do it, specially when it involves waving foreign flags and demanding things like if they were rightfuly yours, you don't have to be a genious to know that if you go into someone else's house without being invited, and then you disrespect the family who lives there and demand things to be done your way and start doing things that are a risk for the family who live there that they are not going to like it.

as a conclusion I want to thank everybody for having the patience to read this far, and I want you to know that when I read your posts and I exchange ideas with you, I don't see you as people from another country but as fellow human beings with souls and hearts and I respect you and love you for that! I have the dream that maybe someday all the countries of the world can be peaceful and prosperous and then we can have a borderless world.

Heavenly father, may your divine love awaken in all our hearts and make us realize we are all brothers!

Love and Light.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:27 PM
 
Location: NM
402 posts, read 978,575 times
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Quote:
Hi Choctaw, well I'm just a human being full of flaws just like most of you I don't hold the absolute truth or have the solutions in my hands, neither I believe I do,
Quote:
however we have to start somewhere and that is why I decided to join the debate, and I hope something good sparks out of it
Let me tell you however I strongly believe in God and the power of prayer, I pray to God everyday for world peace, and for harmony and understanding between each of us, their children, I'm sure most of people here believes in God too and if we join together in prayer we can be witness of miracles, I know that there is a lot people here that don't believe in him, but why don't give it a try, you might be surprised

I appreciate your reply and say that something good has already come from your posts, at least for me it has.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:32 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 737,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
What do you think people? should we Mexican citizens become more involved in this debate and contribute with ideas?

Please don't get confused, I'm not talking about immigrants here but of mexican citizens, those of us who live in Mexico, pay taxes, respect laws, care about our home and want something done to keep improving it.

I think that thanks to us things are much better than 30 years ago, and they will keep getting better, I guess most of us worry about this immigration issue and I don't think it is be wise to give a blind eye to it and pretend nothing is happening, but what to do?

please share your thoughts, let's try to have a constructive, civilized debate with more head than gut.

Respect!
of course you should...this immigration issue is important to all countries, and imo , to mexico in perspective, the most....

you should be asking yourself, why do so many mexican citizens want to leave mexico, why is there such need? and what it is i can do to bring them back home.how can i make them proud of their country?
what can i do to make my government help it's people so there is no need for them to feel the need to leave in the first place?

the voice of mexico screamed out for help last year and the year before with the mexican marches, problem is....they were screaming at the wrong people.

mexican citizens must demand these rights, human rights... to be paid a livable wage, for heathcare, and social services from the government and citizens that matter the most...their own.

if you sound as sensible as i have gathered you to be , you wont take this as an attack....i hope you take it as constructive advice, instead.... a nation must stand together, or it will fall...
mexico is my neighbor and i wish her a fruitful life...please dont be mad that i want my country back..
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:55 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 737,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
the native americans were definitely mistreated, but so are modern day mexicans. its funny how we never questioned their immigration or cheap labor practices when we needed them, but now that the dollar is devalued and cost of living has gone up (thanks federal reserve act!), we treat them like criminals. how convenient!

who exactly brought up the illegal immigration issue, anyway? illegal immigrants.....that's who....
it wasnt because the dollar was devalued...it was because they chose to make this an issue by demanding rights only afforded to citizens and legal immigrants....and btw...they are criminals...they walked , crawled, swam into my country illegally...hense the crime that makes them a criminal....
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:57 PM
 
2,574 posts, read 7,966,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happymom4 View Post
Personally I think alot of Amercian Citizens are tired of hearing what mexico has to say on the subject. mexico seems to be pro-illegal immigration. I know I for one am sick of hearing Fox and his demands on my country for his citizens.
i think you mean calderon. fox is gone, and apparently mexicans are sick of him, too. on the news this morning, i heard that a statue of him that was erected someplace in mexico stood for two whole hours before protestors tore it down. the police stood by and watched.
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:09 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 737,016 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Being a legal Mexican citizen of the United States, I try to share my opinion on the immigration issue. But where I draw the line is joining those marches. I will not combat against my own American people.


these are the ideas i have tried to say...this is not a racist issue...thank you prologic for saying what i have been hoping to hear you say...there is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage...but at a point, you have to take a stand.....are you american? or a hyphenated american...good for you, finally i hear the red white and blue coming out of you.
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