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National pride is not what tribal mentality is. Tribal mentality is a group of people separating themselves from the majority (us vs them). You just don't get it do you? Or perhaps you refuse to get it because it doesn't fit with your separatist agenda. There is more to assimilation then just learning the language of a country. It is about speaking it as one's primary language out in mainstream society. I don't care what native cultures or languages one chooses to practice or speak at home. Language usage is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to assimilation.
The same characteristics are exhibited. It's not a hard concept...it's quite easy. Maybe you simply don't understand, and thus are on the defense. If it's ignorance on the topic here is one thing that can help you: The bold is VERY indicative of how a "tribal mentality" works. A need to exhibit certain patterns of belief and norms.
Assimilation does occur. I like to think that maybe you simply will one day learn.
I keep hearing that "second and third generation immigrants" learn English and assimilate. Who says so? It's only been about 30 years or so since we decided to 'go multicultural'. That's "only" about a generation and a half...(or two generations for the very 'poorest' and least assimilated).
Prior to the time 'multiculturalism' became fashionable, of COURSE people assimilated....that's what society required them to do, and they were proud to do so. Often the second generation not only spoke English, in many cases they didn't even have a vestigal accent. A HUGE percentage of American actors and singers, at one time, were first generation Americans....who made their living acting and singing in English, despite the fact that their parents could barely grasp the language. Many of society's leaders, too, fit this description...children of barely literate parents, who rose into the highest ranks of industry and business....not by clinging to their ancestral culture, but by putting it behind them.
At any rate, there's no such thing today, as a group which has arrived since 'multiculturalism', and is now in its third generation....it's been too recent. How today's 'new people' will assimilate is an open question. There ARE groups today, whose parents immigrated here, who now speak perfect, correct, accentless English. A few of these people even immigrated themselves, as young children; many of them are now heavily represented among our college graduates and professionals. But this is now only an 'option'. Other groups feel no need to assimilate, no need to seek an education, and no need to speak English beyond the most rudimentary 'street slang'. And they're free to do this, since our society no longer puts any demands on anyone.
It's our loss....and we're not doing ANYONE any 'favors' by such short-sightedness. That society which demands no respect will get exactly that.
The same characteristics are exhibited. It's not a hard concept...it's quite easy. Maybe you simply don't understand, and thus are on the defense. If it's ignorance on the topic here is one thing that can help you: The bold is VERY indicative of how a "tribal mentality" works. A need to exhibit certain patterns of belief and norms.
Assimilation does occur. I like to think that maybe you simply will one day learn.
Funny how we have always adhered to the melting pot concept but you come along and decide it is a tribal mentality (twisting the meaning of it) to expect the immigrants of today just like yesterday to assimilate in our country. The Hispanics immigrants in particular (legal or illegal) have decided to colonize rather than assimilate and that is because of their huge numbers. As I said, it isn't just about learning English but using it as one's primary language and staying in school instead of dropping out and having respect for our laws among defying other parts of our culture.
Most countries expect immigrants to assimilate to their culture and language and way of life including Mexico. How you manage to twist that concept around to the countries themselves being tribal rather than the unassimilating immigrants who migrate there is mind boggling.
I keep hearing that "second and third generation immigrants" learn English and assimilate. Who says so? It's only been about 30 years or so since we decided to 'go multicultural'. That's "only" about a generation and a half...(or two generations for the very 'poorest' and least assimilated).
We've always have been a multicultural nation. This is not something new. Italian immigrants, French speakers in LA, Germans, African Americans, Native Americans... So, no we've not "decided to 'go multicultural'" in just a generation. Many have decried the treatment of these minorities, but only recently that we realized the error of saying one culture is absolutely better than another.
Prior to the time 'multiculturalism' became fashionable, of COURSE people assimilated....that's what society required them to do, and they were proud to do so. Often the second generation not only spoke English, in many cases they didn't even have a vestigal accent. A HUGE percentage of American actors and singers, at one time, were first generation Americans....who made their living acting and singing in English, despite the fact that their parents could barely grasp the language. Many of society's leaders, too, fit this description...children of barely literate parents, who rose into the highest ranks of industry and business....not by clinging to their ancestral culture, but by putting it behind them.
Assimilation is a tricky word. It implies that one component is rigid. That there is indeed something stedfast to assimilate to. However, this is not the case. This is why French is still spoken in LA, why there is a distinct and thriving African American culture. There are multiple cultures that have been here in the US. Each has played a role. However, what has happened...I just kind of realized this...is rather than the model of assimilation and conformity, culture adapted. Rap was exclusively in the realm of African American culture. Now, mainstream culture accepted it. French speakers in LA are greatly diminished, but their food, music, architecture, and traditions are still here (actually, LA is trying to preserve the Cajun language). It's acceptable today to acknowledge and be apart of your heritage. I am as much American as I am Ivorian. I speak French and English at home...and in public. Obama has not put behind his heritage. In fact, he acknowledges and passed it on to his children.
At any rate, there's no such thing today, as a group which has arrived since 'multiculturalism', and is now in its third generation....it's been too recent. How today's 'new people' will assimilate is an open question. There ARE groups today, whose parents immigrated here, who now speak perfect, correct, accentless English. A few of these people even immigrated themselves, as young children; many of them are now heavily represented among our college graduates and professionals. But this is now only an 'option'. Other groups feel no need to assimilate, no need to seek an education, and no need to speak English beyond the most rudimentary 'street slang'. And they're free to do this, since our society no longer puts any demands on anyone.
Again, you clearly have the Anglo-centric view of history. That America was largely British. That the slaves were in the background. That all other players quietly changed. This was never the case. No group has never felt the need to NOT obtain an education. This transcends culture and goes into the relm of economic advantage. Our society does put demands, one of them is to understand how culture works and how globalism works. Which I feel, that many on this forum really don't know.
It's our loss....and we're not doing ANYONE any 'favors' by such short-sightedness. That society which demands no respect will get exactly that.
What's myopic is many in the US don't understand how our society works. That they don't know history. That they don't know that culture and assimilation is a two way street. Our culture adapts with the ideas of others. That new standard is the "standard" of assimilation. Culture is fluid.
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I keep hearing that "second and third generation immigrants" learn English and assimilate. Who says so? It's only been about 30 years or so since we decided to 'go multicultural'. That's "only" about a generation and a half...(or two generations for the very 'poorest' and least assimilated).
Prior to the time 'multiculturalism' became fashionable, of COURSE people assimilated....that's what society required them to do, and they were proud to do so. Often the second generation not only spoke English, in many cases they didn't even have a vestigal accent. A HUGE percentage of American actors and singers, at one time, were first generation Americans....who made their living acting and singing in English, despite the fact that their parents could barely grasp the language. Many of society's leaders, too, fit this description...children of barely literate parents, who rose into the highest ranks of industry and business....not by clinging to their ancestral culture, but by putting it behind them.
At any rate, there's no such thing today, as a group which has arrived since 'multiculturalism', and is now in its third generation....it's been too recent. How today's 'new people' will assimilate is an open question. There ARE groups today, whose parents immigrated here, who now speak perfect, correct, accentless English. A few of these people even immigrated themselves, as young children; many of them are now heavily represented among our college graduates and professionals. But this is now only an 'option'. Other groups feel no need to assimilate, no need to seek an education, and no need to speak English beyond the most rudimentary 'street slang'. And they're free to do this, since our society no longer puts any demands on anyone.
It's our loss....and we're not doing ANYONE any 'favors' by such short-sightedness. That society which demands no respect will get exactly that.
Funny how we have always adhered to the melting pot concept but you come along and decide it is a tribal mentality (twisting the meaning of it) to expect the immigrants of today just like yesterday to assimilate in our country. The Hispanics immigrants in particular (legal or illegal) have decided to colonize rather than assimilate and that is because of their huge numbers. As I said, it isn't just about learning English but using it as one's primary language and staying in school instead of dropping out and having respect for our laws among defying other parts of our culture.
You showed a classic example, I merely pointed it out. Again, you fail to understand. The immigrants of "yesterday" did assimilate, but not without first changing the cultural and political landscape. It was not an easy thing. The same argument you posted about colonization was posted over 100 years ago for the Germans, then the Irish. Also, the model that we always had was more of a toss salad, not a melting pot. Multiple cultures forming a whole.
Most countries expect immigrants to assimilate to their culture and language and way of life including Mexico. How you manage to twist that concept around to the countries themselves being tribal rather than the unassimilating immigrants who migrate there is mind boggling.
It's still tribal. It shows an "us" vs. "them". Also, in Mexico you can manage to live as an American in many areas with limited Spanish skills. Again if you don't understand, it's not that big of a deal. You don't need to get yourself worked up over something that you can't grasp. You are looking at it from only one perspective.
Okay, then stop being Wiccan. When in Rome, right? You know because we never liked wicca in the US. Many people claim that true Americans are only Christian. Look, I personally don't care, you live your life without affecting mine. Most people do this. Yes, even illegal immigrants. However, what we should focus on is how to make them legal...and how we can be a better nation.
Okay, then stop being Wiccan. When in Rome, right? You know because we never liked wicca in the US. Many people claim that true Americans are only Christian. Look, I personally don't care, you live your life without affecting mine. Most people do this. Yes, even illegal immigrants. However, what we should focus on is how to make them legal...and how we can be a better nation.
And just why should we focus on rewarding illegal aliens with legalization? We did that in 1986 and look how that turned out. Now we have quadruple the number of illegal aliens we had back then. You aren't even taking into consideration if we have jobs and resources to accomodate these millions not to mention the chain migration of their families that will follow with their granted citizenship. How many millions more added to our population will make you happy? Sorry, but you have tunnel vision for the future of our nation. A smaller economy to fit a smaller population is much healthier for our nation in the long wrong.
Another thing is that legalization will favor Hispanics in particular since they are by far the overwhelming majority of illegals in this country. How is that fair to other immigrants from other ethnic groups still waiting to come here the legal way?
Funny how we have always adhered to the melting pot concept but you come along and decide it is a tribal mentality (twisting the meaning of it) to expect the immigrants of today just like yesterday to assimilate in our country. The Hispanics immigrants in particular (legal or illegal) have decided to colonize rather than assimilate and that is because of their huge numbers. As I said, it isn't just about learning English but using it as one's primary language and staying in school instead of dropping out and having respect for our laws among defying other parts of our culture.
You showed a classic example, I merely pointed it out. Again, you fail to understand. The immigrants of "yesterday" did assimilate, but not without first changing the cultural and political landscape. It was not an easy thing. The same argument you posted about colonization was posted over 100 years ago for the Germans, then the Irish. Also, the model that we always had was more of a toss salad, not a melting pot. Multiple cultures forming a whole.
Most countries expect immigrants to assimilate to their culture and language and way of life including Mexico. How you manage to twist that concept around to the countries themselves being tribal rather than the unassimilating immigrants who migrate there is mind boggling.
It's still tribal. It shows an "us" vs. "them". Also, in Mexico you can manage to live as an American in many areas with limited Spanish skills. Again if you don't understand, it's not that big of a deal. You don't need to get yourself worked up over something that you can't grasp. You are looking at it from only one perspective.
For the umpteenth time expecting immgrants to assimilate in our country is not a tribal concept nor is an "us" vs "them" concept. It is the immigrants that have a separatist, colonizing rather than assimialting viewpoint that are being tribal. You are the one who can't grasp it!
If Americans living in Mexico permanantly don't assimilate to that country's language and culture then they are the tribal ones. I don't discriminate in my assessment of tribalism.
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