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Look, I'm going by what most people in the sociology agree. The latest and newest metric. It's not denial that we have distinct communities. It's actually kind of disparaging towards communities that have a different history. Blacks have a different history and culture than the Yiddish population we have. Yet, both are uniquely American. So again, it's more of a salad bowl since we have distinct communities. The only common thread we have is the rise of the global consumer mass media culture. Technology and shopping.
Let me ask you this question. How do you propose we blend opposing cultures? For instance, in the Muslim culture, women are treated as inferior to men and, as such, are oppressed and abused. Based on Sharia law, it is common and acceptable to punish women for being raped by stoning them to death. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.?? There has been a frightening number of Muslim men living in the U.S. killing or attempting to kill their daughters and/or wives for becoming to "western".
In the Mexican culture, it is common and acceptable for grown men to marry young girls as young as 11. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.??
I could go on and on here with examples of how cultures CLASH. Political differences, social differences, religious differences, language disparities, etc., etc. Just HOW do you propose one country manage this "salad bowl" of clashing ideologies, religions, and traditions???
Hearing an occasional foreign language being spoken is one thing but listening to one constantly everywhere you go is quite another. Why in the world would we give a crap about the content of anyone elses conversation when we don't even know them? I am not interested in anything that a white, black, hispanic or any other person is talking about if they are a stranger. It would mean nothing to me. You're not making any sense here.
So why are you upset? The only difference in this situation is language that you can't understand. Thus, you DO care on wether or not you can understand the conversation. I should have clarified that you may not care on the exact details, but simply want the ability to understand THEIR conversation. Otherwise you wouldn't care. It feeds into your notion of what an American is...and your perceived idea that "America" is somehow being invaded or destroyed.
Look, I'm going by what most people in the sociology agree. The latest and newest metric. It's not denial that we have distinct communities. It's actually kind of disparaging towards communities that have a different history. Blacks have a different history and culture than the Yiddish population we have. Yet, both are uniquely American. So again, it's more of a salad bowl since we have distinct communities. The only common thread we have is the rise of the global consumer mass media culture. Technology and shopping.
Let me explain it to you then. A melting pot has some initial ingredients that make it the stew that it is. You add salt, pepper, etc. to it and it flavors it but it doesn't change the initial ingredients or make it a different dish. In a salad bowl you have all kinds of competing and distinct ingredients. That isn't what we are. We have never been referred to as a salad bowl before only by those who in recent years that can't stand the initial stew that describes our basic culture. In short they don't just want to remain to be just the additional flavors to the stew. They want to be the whole damned stew and change it to a different dish.
Let me ask you this question. How do you propose we blend opposing cultures? For instance, in the Muslim culture, women are treated as inferior to men and, as such, are oppressed and abused. Based on Sharia law, it is common and acceptable to punish women for being raped by stoning them to death. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.?? There has been a frightening number of Muslim men living in the U.S. killing or attempting to kill their daughters and/or wives for becoming to "western".
I was born in Saudi Arabia. Most Muslim men don't abuse their wives. The minority shouldn't speak for the whole. So that's a pretty bad example. The majority of Middle Easterners are quite Western, yet still practice Islam and speak their native language.
In the Mexican culture, it is common and acceptable for grown men to marry young girls as young as 11. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.??
Not common actually...even in Mexico.
I could go on and on here with examples of how cultures CLASH. Political differences, social differences, religious differences, language disparities, etc., etc. Just HOW do you propose one country manage this "salad bowl" of clashing ideologies, religions, and traditions???
You take things out of the norm and extrapolate them as normal. As for managing "this salad bowl" we've done a relatively decent job for the past several centuries...
So why are you upset? The only difference in this situation is language that you can't understand. Thus, you DO care on wether or not you can understand the conversation. I should have clarified that you may not care on the exact details, but simply want the ability to understand THEIR conversation. Otherwise you wouldn't care. It feeds into your notion of what an American is...and your perceived idea that "America" is somehow being invaded or destroyed.
I'm done with you on this. Now you are essentially calling me a liar. As I said, why would I care what a stanger is talking about and you have no reasonable answer to that. Yes, hearing Spanish all day does make one realize the magnitude of this invasion or how Hispanics are just not assimilating lingually in this country. American is "somehow" being invaded? Surely you jest! There are probably 20 million illegals in this country and mostly from Mexico if that doesn't constitute an invasion then I don't know what does. I am sorry for you that you just can't accept what our objection is and trying to spin it into something it isn't.
Let me ask you this question. How do you propose we blend opposing cultures? For instance, in the Muslim culture, women are treated as inferior to men and, as such, are oppressed and abused. Based on Sharia law, it is common and acceptable to punish women for being raped by stoning them to death. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.?? There has been a frightening number of Muslim men living in the U.S. killing or attempting to kill their daughters and/or wives for becoming to "western".
I was born in Saudi Arabia. Most Muslim men don't abuse their wives. The minority shouldn't speak for the whole. So that's a pretty bad example. The majority of Middle Easterners are quite Western, yet still practice Islam and speak their native language.
In the Mexican culture, it is common and acceptable for grown men to marry young girls as young as 11. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.??
Not common actually...even in Mexico.
I could go on and on here with examples of how cultures CLASH. Political differences, social differences, religious differences, language disparities, etc., etc. Just HOW do you propose one country manage this "salad bowl" of clashing ideologies, religions, and traditions???
You take things out of the norm and extrapolate them as normal. As for managing "this salad bowl" we've done a relatively decent job for the past several centuries...
The U.S. hasn't represented a "salad bowl" for centuries...FAR from it. Salad has many different components that do not blend. We have been a "melting pot"...one big group of people who blend together into one culture.
And I have a close friend from Iran (a woman) whose experience differs greatly from your claim that Muslim culture exploiting and abusing women is the exception and not the rule.
Also, you are incorrect that older men marrying very young girls in Mexico is rare. It is more common in the poorer and less educated Mexicans, certainly. But these are the people who are coming here!
Let me ask you this question. How do you propose we blend opposing cultures? For instance, in the Muslim culture, women are treated as inferior to men and, as such, are oppressed and abused. Based on Sharia law, it is common and acceptable to punish women for being raped by stoning them to death. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.?? There has been a frightening number of Muslim men living in the U.S. killing or attempting to kill their daughters and/or wives for becoming to "western".
I was born in Saudi Arabia. Most Muslim men don't abuse their wives. The minority shouldn't speak for the whole. So that's a pretty bad example. The majority of Middle Easterners are quite Western, yet still practice Islam and speak their native language.
In the Mexican culture, it is common and acceptable for grown men to marry young girls as young as 11. Are we to actually accomodate that here in the U.S.??
Not common actually...even in Mexico.
I could go on and on here with examples of how cultures CLASH. Political differences, social differences, religious differences, language disparities, etc., etc. Just HOW do you propose one country manage this "salad bowl" of clashing ideologies, religions, and traditions???
You take things out of the norm and extrapolate them as normal. As for managing "this salad bowl" we've done a relatively decent job for the past several centuries...
Except that we NEVER were a salad bowl, we were melting pot. Big difference!
Let me explain it to you then. A melting pot has some initial ingredients that make it the stew that it is. You add salt, pepper, etc. to it and it flavors it but it doesn't change the initial ingredients or make it a different dish. In a salad bowl you have all kinds of competing and distinct ingredients. That isn't what we are. We have never been referred to as a salad bowl before only by those who in recent years that can't stand the initial stew that describes our basic culture. In short they don't just want to remain to be just the additional flavors to the stew. They want to be the whole damned stew and change it to a different dish.
So you don't understand the analogies. The melting pot means that there is one culture we ALL assimilate to. Meaning that there is no distinctive cultures (ingredients) only one culture (ingredient). The salad bowl theory means that there distinctive groups within the whole (the salad itself). That the groups form the larger whole.
Melting pot theory was a justification of how WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) culture is superior and thus we should ALL assimilate to such.
The salad bowl model is essentially what we have. Both views do not take into consideration the fluidity of culture. However, if it came down to either or...we follow more the "salad bowl" model of assimilation...more an ode to functionalism school of thought.
Except that we NEVER were a salad bowl, we were melting pot. Big difference!
Learn the metaphors. See the post above...We never were a melting pot since we have distinctive communities that have been here for AGES. We've always been more of a salad bowl, since we do have distinctive communities that contribute to the whole.
Well, the sad truth is that many are racist, but more are ethnocentrist. Some are not racist, but this tends to draw a higher number of racists as compared to other causes. The rationale is the following:
1)Mexicans=most illegals
2) Illegal=wrong
3) If Mexican=illegal and illegal=wrong, then Mexican=Wrong.
The association between Mexican and illegal is made. They do not take the time to consider the rammifications, root causes, and alternatives to this logic.
Ethnocentric tendencies tend to run VERY high on this forum. Speak only English, no ESL, etc...are very common posts on here. It's a relatively thin line to go from ethnocentrist to racist.
As for "pro-illegal", the majority of people asking for complete open borders are most likely college educated idealists. There is a relatively large contingent of people who are college educated, White, and middle class...highly liberal...that believe in the concept of open borders. In theory, not a bad concept. However, there are many steps to achieve economic parity with other nations untill we can open our borders to the world.
Most "pro-illegal" people are not "pro-illegal", but rather feel that a comprimise of sorts can be achieved.
The problem with that is it is more complex then you are making it out. For one, a quarter of illegals are not at all Hispanic. While some do make that conflation between "Mexican=illegal" many are keenly aware that there are illegals from Asia, Europe and Africa as well as from Latin America. As to speak only English complains I fail to see how this is racist or ethnocentric either. English is the lingua-franca of the United States and regardless of people's ethnicity as a practical matter English needs to be spoken just to insure that communication is possible. It does not matter if you come to the US speaking Spanish, Swahili, or Cantonese, due to the size of the US, there needs to be a common language everyone can understand for utility sake...Without this it would be difficult the keep the country together.
As to compromises the "pro-illegal" folk as well as the "anti-illegal" folk each offer a compromise. Many of "pro-illegals" believe that the law is so malleable that it can survive being broken and/or ignored on a case by case basis. Their compromise is that laws are more like guidelines that should be broken on occasion. This is contrasted with the view of many "anti-illegal immigration" folks that a compromise already exists in the fact that while the law is the law...if one doesn't like it one does not like they law one can work to change it.
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