Indy has a Great Downtown! (Indianapolis: oceanfront, transportation, install)

[Colts]

Originally Posted by msamhunter

Will not debate In God We Trust on our license plates but to say, that same motto is the US Motto, Motto for the State of Florida and on our currency. Griping about it being on the Indiana license plate is a waste of time.

My point was not about the merits of the God plates (which are still in awful taste, btw). My point was that Indiana's conservatism holds it back in such a manner that is not experienced in Minnesota.

Chicago invests a lot of money and energy in conventions, why do you think McCormick is the largest convention center? Chicago has a very successful convention business; why? Because they market themselves. Like I said, no city is going to turn their back on a convention. You get a convention let's say draws 30k people for 3-4 days. That's about 30-35 million into the coffers. Do you think hotels, restaurant owners, cab drivers, etc. are going to be like we're Chicago we don't need that?

Again, you missed the mark. Chicago is as not nearly as convention-dependent for tourism bucks as Indianapolis is. Of course no city is going to turn down the extra visitors. The difference is that there's more to be had from tourists than conventions over there. Can't say the same for Indianapolis.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by Colts

At least Minnesota has enough liberal-minded people to balance out the fanatical conservatism. Has Minnesota ever been referred to as the Mississippi of the North? Where's Minnesota's In God we Trust plates? I hear Kentucky just started offering theirs. Now which state would you rather be affiliated with?

And anyone who's been to Mississippi knows what a BS comparison it is.

But, hey, too bad we don't have politicians as cool as Michelle Bachmann and Anthony Wiener.

[bertrandandjules]

Originally Posted by Colts

At least Minnesota has enough liberal-minded people to balance out the fanatical conservatism. Has Minnesota ever been referred to as the Mississippi of the North? Where's Minnesota's In God we Trust plates? I hear Kentucky just started offering theirs. Now which state would you rather be affiliated with?


No, because cities like Chicago don't invest most of their energy and resources into attracting conventions. See the difference?

Las Vegas is the convention capital of the world. Do you think conventions are the first tourism priority in a city like Las Vegas?

If you think that Indiana is a hotbed of "fanatical conservatism", you obviously haven't been to a lot of the South, the Rocky Mountain (non coastal) West, the Great Plains, or even much of rural Minnesota. Tons of more conservative places out there! Sheesh! Indiana voted more liberally than about 20 other states in the last presidential election.

I've heard plenty of places called "Mississippi of the North" and it is never meant to be flattering, which is equally insulting to Mississippi, as it implies that Mississippi has no redeeming qualities. Or Kentucky, for that matter. We share a large border with Kentucky; it is inevitable that we'll have more in common with it than Minnesota. We also have more in common with Ohio and Illinois than we do with Idaho or Maine, and Minnesota has more in common with Wisconsin than it does with Hawaii. But why do we need to be "affiliated with" a state? Why can't we look toward self improvement on our own terms?

Sorry you think this is such a flawed place--but I moved here not so long ago and am a fan. You're more than welcome to disagree with people for liking Indianapolis here on an Indianapolis forum, but don't be surprised with the responses if you antagonize people. And my guess is that your success rate and persuading people over to your side will be firmly lodged at zero.

[Colts]

Originally Posted by bertrandandjules

If you think that Indiana is a hotbed of "fanatical conservatism", you obviously haven't been to a lot of the South, the Rocky Mountain (non coastal) West, the Great Plains, or even much of rural Minnesota. Tons of more conservative places out there! Sheesh! Indiana voted more liberally than about 20 other states in the last presidential election.

I didn't say Indiana was a hotbed of fanatical conservatism. If you're going to quote someone, quote what was actually said.

I've heard plenty of places called "Mississippi of the North" and it is never meant to be flattering, which is equally insulting to Mississippi, as it implies that Mississippi has no redeeming qualities. Or Kentucky, for that matter. We share a large border with Kentucky; it is inevitable that we'll have more in common with it than Minnesota. We also have more in common with Ohio and Illinois than we do with Idaho or Maine, and Minnesota has more in common with Wisconsin than it does with Hawaii. But why do we need to be "affiliated with" a state? Why can't we look toward self improvement on our own terms?

I'm not sure if you're intentionally taking things out of context, or if you're interpreting what I said to be taken literally. Either way, you missed the point entirely which is that while Indiana is making progress, the state is not doing as much as it can to attract newcomers. The politics of the state are not attractive to the type of talent that will keep the city competitive in the 21st century.

Sorry you think this is such a flawed place--but I moved here not so long ago and am a fan. You're more than welcome to disagree with people for liking Indianapolis here on an Indianapolis forum, but don't be surprised with the responses if you antagonize people. And my guess is that your success rate and persuading people over to your side will be firmly lodged at zero.

I'm not here to persuade, cajole, proselytize, etc. I'm simply offering my opinion, just like everyone else.

People like you are what holds the city back. You automatically inferred that I think the city is a "flawed place" simply because I offered criticism. I actually think the world of Indianapolis, and anyone who's been on the forums long enough will tell you that.

Sometimes I praise the city, and sometimes I criticize the city. How do you possibly expect the place to improve if you attack others at the slightest hint of criticism? If you don't agree, say so, but don't marginalize others for offering their opinions.

[Colts]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

And anyone who's been to Mississippi knows what a BS comparison it is.

But, hey, too bad we don't have politicians as cool as Michelle Bachmann and Anthony Wiener.

You're lucky I agree with the vast majority of your posts. I will spare you this time.

[bertrandandjules]

Colts, methinks thou dost protest too much. You absolutely used the phrase "fanatical conservatism" earlier and I quoted you on it. Okay, you didn't use the word "hotbed", if you want to split hairs.

I thought I was pretty balanced in my response and would stick to it--certainly not an "attack" to you because I've seen you offer good criticism as well. But if you thought mine was an attack, my apologies--at the same time: pot, kettle, black. You claim you're not here to persuade or cajole and yet you tell me I'm the type "that holds the city back"! LMAO, honestly!

I'm trying to offer balance to what I saw as a fairly distorted description of things here. Of course Indiana has a brain drain problem--I know that and so do most people here. But thinking that adopting liberal policies is automatically what attracts people somewhere also smacks of the elitism that repels just as many people. Like only liberals have creative talent to offer. There are plenty of conservative states that have long attracted creative talent: Georgia and North Carolina are hardly liberal and are booming. Arizona too. Tennessee. Utah. Furthermore, some of the most liberal states like Hawaii and Massachusetts and your New York aren't growing so much because they're too dang expensive. They might have lots of creative talent, but they also have a huge portion of the population who lives in subsidized housing but would be considered comfortable or even middle class in a place like Indy.

I'll be frank: if there were a referendum regarding the "in God we trust" license plates, I would absolutely vote against them. I don't like them either. But I'd probably lose. (If Minnesota or just about any state had a referendum, the folks in favor would win. Let's face it: this is a patriotic and very conservative country.) I show my non-support for those plates by not buying one. And it's a little extreme to say that people won't come because of a license plate, honestly. The brain drain the Indiana suffers is also more prevalent elsewhere in the state--by most standards, Indianapolis is above the national average for college educated. I have plenty of college educated friends who have had no problems finding a job here, or switching after the first one. Bloomington IN is creative, well educated, and liberal, but Lafayette IN is not so liberal and still has a very well educated workforce thanks to its more engineering-slanted industries spawned by Purdue. The rest of the state, by and large, has bigger problems.

I'm hardly one of those "love-it-or-leave-it-types", but I do try to see things with a little balance. The moderation is what I like about this place. I just moved here and have no intention of leaving and ideally will help to contribute to what I see as the city's continued movement forward! Touche!

[Colts]

Originally Posted by bertrandandjules

Colts, methinks thou dost protest too much. You absolutely used the phrase "fanatical conservatism" earlier and I quoted you on it. Okay, you didn't use the word "hotbed", if you want to split hairs.

There's no splitting hairs. Either I said something or didn't say it. It's that simple.

You claim you're not here to persuade or cajole and yet you tell me I'm the type "that holds the city back"!

Offering one's opinion is not the same as attempting to persuade someone.

I have that opinion of you because you're intentionally taking what I'm saying out of context, and I will not allow you to do that.

I'm trying to offer balance to what I saw as a fairly distorted description of things here.

You saw it that way because you read into something that wasn't there in the first place.

The statement "New York City has terrible public schools" is not automatically a knock against New York. It isn't even necessarily false. Yet, some people would automatically see it as a knock if they chose to interpret it that way. Do you understand what I'm saying?

If you aren't clear about something, ask for clarification instead of automatically assuming malicious intent.

[urbanologist]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

correct
As i like to say in Indy youll get more *Bang for your Buck*
The Dollar does indeed go further here in Indy.
Well enjoying that big city environment. Minus the big city cost of living.

and Minus the "red light" cameras at a costly big city intersection.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by urbanologist

and Minus the "red light" cameras at a costly big city intersection.

lol so true. Already some big news articles on the Chicagotribune.com etc about that.

[urbanologist]

It'$ about $afety