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Christians claim that Jesus is the only way. Muslims claim that Mohammed is the only way. Both claim you are doomed if you dont believe that. Muslims certainly dont have a corner on the violence market. Spanish Inquisition. Salem witch trials. John Hagee." He's a just and merciful God. And if you dont believe that you will burn in hell forever!" Yea. Thats real mercy.
Christians claim that Jesus is the only way. Muslims claim that Mohammed is the only way. Both claim you are doomed if you dont believe that. Muslims certainly dont have a corner on the violence market. Spanish Inquisition. Salem witch trials. John Hagee." He's a just and merciful God. And if you dont believe that you will burn in hell forever!" Yea. Thats real mercy.
no muslims say allah is the only way..mohhamed is his last messenger...you should follow the sunna of mohhamed, but those before the prophets time who followed jesus, abraham, moses, and submitted to the one god were also muslims..all the prophets in the bible are muslims, because they submit to the one god...
If you are referring to Islam in general, then I have to agree with John's post that Islam is just like any other religion out there. However, if you are referring what is going on TODAY, then I would say that Islam, by far, the MOST violent, intolerant, hate filled religion out there.
what about it ?
i responded to each one of it , and i wonder why you didn't respond back to me , though you ignore it and repeat the same question
I responded to you and Moonsun in this post:
"Sorry folks, it's the same as the Old Testament. The overall documents are filled with self-appointed violence and elitism based on support from a god. The books are filled with insecurity, domination of women who are not treated equally, intolerance of homosexuals, instances of slavery, conversion to their respective religions at the point of a scimitar, etc.
We have seen this acted out throughout history, and even now. Religion is a source of conflict and war. For all the comfort it provides the adherent, based on an imaginary god, the world is not better off for it. At the very least, fundamentalists are woefully ignorant of science and facts. At the very worst, victims fall dead at the end of swords or exploding bombs."
This sums up your defense:
Me: [Surah 2:191] Kill them [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you…
You: Drive them out of the places from which they drove you… do you find that unfair ? !!!
Notice how you ignored Kill them, non-Muslims, wherever you find them.
Kill them..who is them? Children? Women? Non-Muslims...Hitler did something to non-Aryans (according to his definition). Wherever you find them...all over? Or just the places they drove you? And who was there first?
Your defense of the Koran is similar to Christian defenses of the Old Testament where all atrocities are explained away to translation, improper context, or God's holy will. Meanwhile, there are centuries of bloody history attributed to Islam, Christianity and Judaism. The root of the problem are the "holy" books and the evil (with some good mixed in) that is written.
no muslims say allah is the only way..mohhamed is his last messenger...you should follow the sunna of mohhamed, but those before the prophets time who followed jesus, abraham, moses, and submitted to the one god were also muslims..all the prophets in the bible are muslims, because they submit to the one god...
so why is the bible pointed out as corrupted word of God, yet you muslims or Islam uses the bible as reference for God's work?
another thing allah is the arabic name not the english name for god, yet you call him the 'immaculate', but can only be sure to be adhered to him, by calling him 'allah'. i am sure he allah can be called god in other languages other than the same arabic name as 'allah'. if buddha is a name of a god known or used in all languages, it does say something to me that allah is a name of a god not God, take note of the difference.
God has been always there from the beginning before the quran store words from the bible, passages and written in a non chronological order. take note that all stories of the bible are in order, while the quran does not even phase as the chronicles of the bible. i see a lot of misintepretation and contradiction between the two, then i recall the God in the new testament and old testament the same. while the god of the quran cannot be counted as the same god in either books.
you definately cannot condemn the jews and the christians, then use the scriptures as reference of existant of islam, because practicing a faith is no different to the instructions given, unless otherwise. i cannot come up with a book that condemns reference as part of the source of its roots, that itself would not click right
Last edited by jackdonekings; 11-04-2008 at 04:55 PM..
"Sorry folks, it's the same as the Old Testament. The overall documents are filled with self-appointed violence and elitism based on support from a god. The books are filled with insecurity, domination of women who are not treated equally, intolerance of homosexuals, instances of slavery, conversion to their respective religions at the point of a scimitar, etc.
We have seen this acted out throughout history, and even now. Religion is a source of conflict and war. For all the comfort it provides the adherent, based on an imaginary god, the world is not better off for it. At the very least, fundamentalists are woefully ignorant of science and facts. At the very worst, victims fall dead at the end of swords or exploding bombs."
This sums up your defense:
Me: [Surah 2:191] Kill them [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you…
You: Drive them out of the places from which they drove you… do you find that unfair ? !!!
Notice how you ignored Kill them, non-Muslims, wherever you find them.
Kill them..who is them? Children? Women? Non-Muslims...Hitler did something to non-Aryans (according to his definition). Wherever you find them...all over? Or just the places they drove you? And who was there first?
Your defence of the Koran is similar to Christian defenses of the Old Testament where all atrocities are explained away to translation, improper context, or God's holy will. Meanwhile, there are centuries of bloody history attributed to Islam, Christianity and Judaism. The root of the problem are the "holy" books and the evil (with some good mixed in) that is written.
yes indeed religion does bring a lot war and contradictions, we as human want to defend an existence of a providence that gives us hope for our daily problems. we also afraid of loosing out our consciousness for eternity, which could makes us feel hopeless without faith. that is why we outer defend our religion against others who try or dare to condemn it, just like an atheist like you .
Atheism is also a religion that defends its theory of science or evolution in contrary to other religions. Basically you at war even though calm but submissive to your own ideas.' Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.' think again that pushes atheism as part of religions, it is that thought that was created by your fundamental logical facts that has driven you to this point to believe in your philosophy.
To me Christianity is a lifestyle of a religion that has existed since the beginning, evolution did not begin without creation. excuse me for using the word 'evolution' but i don't believe in it, i used it as an example for an atheist/scientist to understand. Basically science is a logic, i can explain that heat is transferred into energy by using a thermal conductor, at the same time as a scientist i need to prove it practically, even though my logic explanation sounds good enough theoretically.
One thing you missing out is the moral issues. Everything that we do and has been condemned by the bible as the fact of conscience knowing the right thing and wrong stuff. we all have a conscience and so do animals, it maybe logic but unlike animals, humans can go beyond the expected.
so on Moral issues. we know 'murder', 'fornication', 'homosexuality', 'drunkardness', 'fraud mouth', 'liar', 'jealousy and envy','witchcraft', 'adultery' all i have listed are signs of knowing what is right and wrong we know that, because the atheist public maynot agree with all of them. it is a moral issue that makes you as the human think deep upon these injustice activities that go about on our daily basis. so as human who walk on earth with a holy spirit in him to know what is good and right, with the freewill moving about freely on a land filled with temptation to do what ever you like out of freewill. that is why you driven by your own freewill to believe God is man made, a fact or logic that is mysterious to most of us.
animals aren't born gay, you've seen that already, why is human different? if we evolved from monkeys they at least should have a common behaviour or a human disorder that carries on animals with animals if we humans are a part of animals, then we could have proven that man is indeed born gay.
free will to believe in our own fundamentals, conscience to know what is right and wrong and creation is process a force of, a God proven science that even you yourself wonder, how and when that is why you need to search deep in you. God is real and he exist.
Spirits are disguise if you still don't believe in God then go to hospitals several times and watch people die, some die in horror, a near death experience does make you actually see things and if you want proof go about and investigate. light and darkness, God and the Devil, the good and the evil, a conscience is a fact of knowing right and wrong. My God is real and surely i don't believe the Koran, it is an oath, a force prophecy and not the word of God. the bible already predicted the rise of force prophets in the old testament and new testament.
'For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12' now this coming from the bible the word of God not the qurran.
Last edited by jackdonekings; 11-04-2008 at 04:55 PM..
yes indeed religion does bring a lot war and contradictions, we as human want to defend an existence of a providence that gives us hope for our daily problems. we also afraid of loosing out our consciousness for eternity, which could makes us feel hopeless without faith. that is why we outer defend our religion against others who try or dare to condemn it, just like an atheist like you .
Atheism is also a religion that defends its theory of science or evolution in contrary to other religions. Basically you at war even though calm but submissive to your own ideas.' Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.' think again that pushes atheism as part of religions, it is that thought that was created by your fundamental logical facts that has driven you to this point to believe in your philosophy.
To me Christianity is a lifestyle of a religion that has existed since the beginning, evolution did not begin without creation. excuse me for using the word 'evolution' but i don't believe in it, i used it as an example for an atheist/scientist to understand. Basically science is a logic, i can explain that heat is transferred into energy by using a thermal conductor, at the same time as a scientist i need to prove it practically, even though my logic explanation sounds good enough theoretically.
One thing you missing out is the moral issues. Everything that we do and has been condemned by the bible as the fact of conscience knowing the right thing and wrong stuff. we all have a conscience and so do animals, it maybe logic but unlike animals, humans can go beyond the expected.
so on Moral issues. we know 'murder', 'fornication', 'homosexuality', 'drunkardness', 'fraud mouth', 'liar', 'jealousy and envy','witchcraft', 'adultery' all i have listed are signs of knowing what is right and wrong we know that, because the atheist public maynot agree with all of them. it is a moral issue that makes you as the human think deep upon these injustice activities that go about on out daily basis. so as human who walk on earth with a holy spirit in him to know what is good and right, with the freewill moving about freely on a land filled with temptation to do what ever you like out of freewill. that is why you driven by your own freewill to believe God is man made, a fact or logic that is mysterious to most of us.
animals aren't born gay, you've seen that already, why is human different? if we evolved from monkeys they at least should have a common behaviour or a human disorder that carries on animals with animals if we humans are a part of animals, then we could have proven that man is indeed born gay.
free will to believe in our own fundamentals, conscience to know what is right and wrong and creation is process a force of, a God proven science that even you yourself wonder, how and when that is why you need to search deep in you. God is real and he exist.
Spirits are disguise if you still don't believe in God then go to hospitals several times and watch people die, some die in horror, a near death experience does make you actually see things and if you want proof go about and investigate. light and darkness, God and the Devil, the good and the evil, a conscience is a fact of knowing right and wrong. My God is real and surely i don't believe the Koran, it is an oath, a force prophecy and not the word of God. the bible already predicted the rise of force prophets in the old testament and new testament.
'For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12' now this coming from the bible the word of God not the qurran.
Actually Atheism is not a religion. It's an absence of belief. Science is secular. The difference here is that when new scientific discoveries are made, even those that invalidate prior ones, there's not a problem adopting the new knowledge. I didn't shed a tear when Pluto was demoted from a planet. Try demoting Jesus to a man only, see what happens.
Plenty of holy texts have moral guidelines. We don't need these holy texts to differentiate right and wrong. That is the brainwashing you have been fed to demonize non-believers. Do you think I love my parents, wife, friends, animal companions any less than a religious person? Do you think I seek to cheat, murder etc? One of the major reasons I reject the bible is on moral grounds, in addition to scientific ones. The bible is a collection of some of the worst "god" sanctioned atrocities in written form. Even if I was blind to science, I could not abide by a doctrine that advocates genocide, infanticide, slavery, discrimination and the like.
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