Street Car & Commuter Rail in Jax SOON! (Jacksonville, Miami: rent, health insurance)

[mawipafl]

Getting back to the subject of this thread ....

Originally Posted by FlyiMetro

The Rosa Parks Skyway Station they have between State & Union by FCCJ....Jacksonville should have 4 of those terminals instead of one. 1 westside, 1 northside & 2 southside terminals...have buses feed those instead of all buses coming downtown..let the Skyway Train connect the 4 hubs...What do people think of that idea?

This line of thinking is on the right track (pun intended). I'm a fan of the Skyway - or I should say, I'm a fan of how the Skyway was supposed to be.

In general I'm a fan of all "rail" transportation (light rail, commuter rail, subway, long-distance Amtrak). But being a fan doesn't mean I'd use it here in Jax. In large and massively congested metropolitan areas such as the NYC area or Washington DC, hands down I'd take the rail. However, here in Jax I doubt I ever would -- there's just no way any sort of rail system could take me where I want to go and when I want to go.

But rather than focussing on why I wouldn't take a train, I'd like to think about why I would.
1) Free or cheap and plentiful station parking at the outer ends of the spokes, with the hub being downtown.
2) Convenient and consistent schedules, i.e. knowing there would be a train scheduled every 30 minutes or less.
3) Efficiency - I'd probably be ok if it took twice as long to get somewhere by rail than it would by car, but that's about my limit. Too many stops between my points of origin and destination would be annoying.

Sadly and realistically, I don't see how 1, 2, and/or 3 are possible. Perhaps I'm short-sighted, but I think the only people who would be served by a rail system would be commuters to downtown. Although there are many, many people who do work downtown, they come from all over the place in Duval, Nassau, St. Johns, and Clay, and I just don't believe there could ever be enough "spokes" to make rail convenient or viable.

[KerryB]

Originally Posted by mawipafl

Getting back to the subject of this thread ....



This line of thinking is on the right track (pun intended). I'm a fan of the Skyway - or I should say, I'm a fan of how the Skyway was supposed to be.

In general I'm a fan of all "rail" transportation (light rail, commuter rail, subway, long-distance Amtrak). But being a fan doesn't mean I'd use it here in Jax. In large and massively congested metropolitan areas such as the NYC area or Washington DC, hands down I'd take the rail. However, here in Jax I doubt I ever would -- there's just no way any sort of rail system could take me where I want to go and when I want to go.

But rather than focussing on why I wouldn't take a train, I'd like to think about why I would.
1) Free or cheap and plentiful station parking at the outer ends of the spokes, with the hub being downtown.
2) Convenient and consistent schedules, i.e. knowing there would be a train scheduled every 30 minutes or less.
3) Efficiency - I'd probably be ok if it took twice as long to get somewhere by rail than it would by car, but that's about my limit. Too many stops between my points of origin and destination would be annoying.

Sadly and realistically, I don't see how 1, 2, and/or 3 are possible. Perhaps I'm short-sighted, but I think the only people who would be served by a rail system would be commuters to downtown. Although there are many, many people who do work downtown, they come from all over the place in Duval, Nassau, St. Johns, and Clay, and I just don't believe there could ever be enough "spokes" to make rail convenient or viable.

You're right, it's not possible here (at least not until many years of major changing trends/attitudes/city & state support). And anyone who thinks it is has obviously never used a real public transportation system in a real urbanized city for any extended time & is just pie in the sky dreaming.

Thats why I'm personally kind of writing off Jax for projects like this. It has to be a viable mode of transportation that goes to places people wanna go to, coupled with a semi-compact city that was built out with pedestrians in mind (or at least somewhat). Jax is like the complete opposite of that & was built almost entirely around the automobile.

[mawipafl]

Originally Posted by KerryB

You're right, it's not possible here (at least not until many years of major changing trends/attitudes/city & state support). And anyone who thinks it is has obviously never used a real public transportation system in a real urbanized city for any extended time & is just pie in the sky dreaming.

Thats why I'm personally kind of writing off Jax for projects like this. It has to be a viable mode of transportation that goes to places people wanna go to, coupled with a semi-compact city that was built out with pedestrians in mind (or at least somewhat). Jax is like the complete opposite of that & was built almost entirely around the automobile.

The oddest part about what I'm saying, writing, and thinking is this, that because I worked in the industry, some family members are still in the industry, and I have major love of riding the rails since I grew up with it, one would think I'd be a major proponent for Jacksonville. Not so. However, I am a proponent of the SunRail commuter rail project in Orlando because that's not pie-in-the-sky and is viable for that city. Quite a different scenario there.

Still, it would great to wish that I could board a train of some sort in Clay County and travel to downtown, switch to a light rail or streetcar or the Skyway and head to Springfield for a treat at Sweet Pete's or some java at Three Layers. Not that the drive by car is a horrendous one, but it would be nice to sit back and read and let someone else get me there. But realistically, all that is is a wish or a dream.

I also don't believe it's something that should be built in foresight of what may happen in the future regarding questionable gasoline prices and/or availability. I was a driver back in the 70s during the embargo and gas rationing, and long lines at the gas stations and restricted amounts of gas didn't turn me into a public transportation user. Most of us became carpoolers instead.

[fsu813]

(this is in addition to he 2030 Mobility Plan in the original post, btw)


State official: Get ready Jacksonville, high speed rail is coming

"The future of high-speed rail in Florida," said Kevin Thibault, executive director of Florida Rail Enterprise, "is Jacksonville and Southeast Florida."

The present is Central Florida along the Interstate 4 corridor. The state has secured $1.25 billion in federal stimulus funds to build a high-speed rail from Tampa to Orlando. That line is expected to be open in late 2015.

Thibault spoke at a Tuesday luncheon at the Jacksonville office of the Florida Department of Transportation, which runs the Florida Rail Enterprise.

The state plans to extend high-speed rail from Orlando to Miami. A Jacksonville connection would be next.

"From Jacksonville we can establish links out of the state to somewhere like Atlanta," Thibault said.

"And we really can't connect out of state unless we go through Jacksonville."

Full article: State official: Get ready Jacksonville, high speed rail is coming | jacksonville.com

[jsimms3]

I am firmly opposed to HSR. Complete waste of taxpayer dollars and this coming from a rail advocate and someone who has/is taking classes on the very subject. Once HSR becomes cheaper in a million years I'll be all for it, but it isn't worth 10 figures.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by jsimms3

I am firmly opposed to HSR. Complete waste of taxpayer dollars and this coming from a rail advocate and someone who has/is taking classes on the very subject. Once HSR becomes cheaper in a million years I'll be all for it, but it isn't worth 10 figures.

Not in this country it won't , it will probably get more expensive. I'm only opposed to the Project because neither city has Base system to connect up to.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Not in this country it won't , it will probably get more expensive. I'm only opposed to the Project because neither city has Base system to connect up to.

Which cities are you talking about (since you live in New Jersey - not Florida)?

IMO - HSR these days is DOA - even with federal subsidies. Because the states don't have the money to pay their share. Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by fsu813

(this is in addition to he 2030 Mobility Plan in the original post, btw)


State official: Get ready Jacksonville, high speed rail is coming

"The future of high-speed rail in Florida," said Kevin Thibault, executive director of Florida Rail Enterprise, "is Jacksonville and Southeast Florida."

The present is Central Florida along the Interstate 4 corridor. The state has secured $1.25 billion in federal stimulus funds to build a high-speed rail from Tampa to Orlando. That line is expected to be open in late 2015.

Thibault spoke at a Tuesday luncheon at the Jacksonville office of the Florida Department of Transportation, which runs the Florida Rail Enterprise.

The state plans to extend high-speed rail from Orlando to Miami. A Jacksonville connection would be next.

"From Jacksonville we can establish links out of the state to somewhere like Atlanta," Thibault said.

"And we really can't connect out of state unless we go through Jacksonville."

Full article: State official: Get ready Jacksonville, high speed rail is coming | jacksonville.com

How often do you go to Miami? Would you ever take a train from downtown JAX to downtown MIA? The way I look at it - I might save an hour - perhaps two if I'm stretching it - on a 5 hour drive. Train would probably cost $200+ RT for 2 people. Gas for car costs about $100 RT. And when I got to MIA - I'd have to rent a car - at a cost of perhaps $30-50/day. Pick-up - drop off the car - deal with luggage - etc. Kind of a PITA.

So would you - or anyone else here - be a customer? Robyn

[jsimms3]

I have ridden high speed in Spain and it was smooth, fast, and comfortable. I might ride it here if I had someone picking me up at the station and didn't have to use a car per se, but only if it were as cheap as a RT flight or less. Judging by Amtrak costs it will certainly not be a cheap ticket. Also I agree Robyn that because FL can't pay its share of the damn thing it is DOA.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by jsimms3

I have ridden high speed in Spain and it was smooth, fast, and comfortable. I might ride it here if I had someone picking me up at the station and didn't have to use a car per se, but only if it were as cheap as a RT flight or less. Judging by Amtrak costs it will certainly not be a cheap ticket. Also I agree Robyn that because FL can't pay its share of the damn thing it is DOA.

The 2 high speed rail systems I've been on in recent years were in Germany and Japan. Germany was good (although the spargel served in the dining car was the only awful spargel I had in Germany). Bullet trains in Japan were amazing - better than any ride at Disney .

But I'm not sure people understand how expensive these great rail systems are to use. For example - one of the bullet trains we took was from Tokyo to Osaka - about the exact distance from JAX to MIA - 340 miles. RT fare was/is about $300 for a single time purchase in second class. There are discounts for frequent users - and tourists (we got a great deal on a first class rail pass only available to tourists) - but it's a pretty expensive way to go for the average domestic traveler taking a single trip. Even if we had major subsidies on a rail line like this - and frequent traveler rates - and group rates - and senior fares - and junior fares - etc. - I can't see a family of 4 taking a train from JAX to MIA if it costs $400 RT for the family (especially if the family has to rent a car in MIA when they get there). Robyn