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I'm sorry but when a company bullies salary information out of candidates while refusing to disclose their salary range to gain a negotiating advantage that is very hostile and makes honest negotiations impossible. That is the root of this adversarial situation.
I am not even just talking about this particular case. There are a number of people on this forum who in post after post think that applying for a job is ALWAYS and adversarial situation - that companies and employers are enemies in some sort of war. I would submit that, with a different attitude, they might have different results in their pursuit of job opportunities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
If I have to spell out exactly how much I've contributed to the company and profits then management isn't doing their job. They are the ones who need to track expenses and profitability...It is the managers job to review employees and their value not the employees.
If one does not know what their own value to the company is, then they have no basis on which to assess how much they are worth to that company. Again, everything in business is about negotiation - and one cannot negotiate if they do not even understand the position that they are in to begin with.
For most people, how could they possibly know how much their work increased the company's bottom line? I am a software developer, and my company doesn't tell me how much they sell the software for to other companies. Even if I knew how much they sold the software for, how could I possibly break that down into dollar amounts for my contributions vs. my co-workers contributions? What about a sysadmin, who doesn't even work on a product that gets sold? All he does it make sure the company's network is running smoothly - there's no way he could know how much he improves the company's bottom line.
You can always find ways to quantify performance and do so in ways that speak to the company's overall financial wellbeing. Did you create a new feature? Did you finish a project ahead of schedule, thereby creating greater profitability for the sold product? Sit down in a quiet room with a pen and a blank legal pad and start creating a narrative. I'll bet you can think of plenty of talking points in a short period of time.
The problem is that the large percentage of people never bother to even make their case. They just say, "Well, I worked really hard this year" and leave it at that. By demonstrating your value in ways that make sense from a dollar standpoint to the C suite, you have a lot more leverage come time to ask for a raise.
I am not even just talking about this particular case. There are a number of people on this forum who in post after post think that applying for a job is ALWAYS and adversarial situation - that companies and employers are enemies in some sort of war. I would submit that, with a different attitude, they might have different results in their pursuit of job opportunities.
Good observation about certain personality traits .... some people always find that it is "someone else's fault", or that "they are all against me". A shift in thought might lead to better expectations, better attitude, and a better outcome for those folks.
You can always find ways to quantify performance and do so in ways that speak to the company's overall financial wellbeing. Did you create a new feature? Did you finish a project ahead of schedule, thereby creating greater profitability for the sold product? Sit down in a quiet room with a pen and a blank legal pad and start creating a narrative. I'll bet you can think of plenty of talking points in a short period of time.
The problem is that the large percentage of people never bother to even make their case. They just say, "Well, I worked really hard this year" and leave it at that. By demonstrating your value in ways that make sense from a dollar standpoint to the C suite, you have a lot more leverage come time to ask for a raise.
For larger companies, there's not really much leeway for even SVP's to handle salaries, the salary pressures are always to bring everyone to the median of their pay band. You can get slightly more than other people in this system, but it's extremely difficult no matter how valued you are, to get much more than that because it comes down to HR number crunchers.
I would say that unless they require you to provide your W2's or paystubs and you actually give it to them, most likely there's no way for them to verify the exact amount. You hear these scare tactics from HR reps, but here in California, they're required to send you a copy of the background checks, and I don't see any salary information confirmed. They only confirm whether you've worked at a specific company and for what dates.
Are you serious? The average manager is up to his rear end in alligators and has about 2 nanoseconds to think, "Hmmm. What did Mschemist80 do over the past year?" Yeah, if the company has whoopity scoopity time systems that track what you did down to the second, it might work. But even then, you have to really provide context for what you did, when you did it, how you did it, and how big a difference it made.
It's really simple. Are you going to take what you think you deserve or are you going to sit back and take what they give you? Crossing your arms and saying, "Well if you don't know how much I contribute to this company day-in and day-out, I'm certainly not going to tell you now" strikes me as a bit too much.
My performance reviews are for the most part fair in my opinion. However if I remember correctly, my review was submitted to HR for review and my pay raise determined before any discussion with my manager. Of course you can ask to speak to your manager beforehand but most reviews(IME) are not structured as you describe them an opportunity to state your case and have a discussion about your performance and compensation.
I do not think this is unusual either.
I am not sure under what circumstances most companies will disclose your salary and how they know the person asking is a potential employer, the background check contractor, or a bank verifying income for a mortgage.
Personally I think most companies should respect a candidate's right not to give the info if they are uncomfortable. If the candidate is uncomfortable they are probably underpaid, they know it and are angered by it which is why they are looking, and if you use their salary info to lowball them you will anger them and they will either reject your offer outright or they will take it and quit soon after for a higher offer either way the company loses.
And this is why on the background form the person also gives authorization to look at credit and salry history, if we choose to do so. If the person does not sign the form we don;t hire them. Done and done.
So, that Googled attempt to show it is not happening is worthless.
I lied about my salary during the interview. It was never written on my resume and I only verbally told them what I made. I have started working. They are now doing a background check and they might ask my previous employers for my salary at the time. Am I screwed?
During the salary negotiation part, I also mentioned that I have several higher offers from other companies. I am wondering if I can used this to my benefit?
I've never encountered a situation where the prospective employer found out about my previous salaries.....the only thing prospective employers have ever been able to verify was my criminal background and references from former supervisors/coworkers. I believe most prospective employers are just gonna check your references and criminal background. I wouldn't sign off for them to verify that(salary history) anyway. If they require that, then it would be best for both parties to move on.
In an ideal world where capitalism was 100% efficient and hiring was based on talent and qualifications and not HR nonsense, who knows what manager, nepotism, cronyism, age discrimination based on healthcare costs etc. One of my coworkers was a chemist with 30 years experience who led his own group. He got the axe in his 50's and the company that hired him knew full well they could exploit him because he'd be declared to old or overqualified for every other job.
Hey, whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night and justify your dishonesty. I hope someday you realize that you act as dishonestly and slimy as the people you complain about.
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