Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Courses like VB and Oracle database, you can pick off yourself in Barnes & Noble.
It is what it is. If she studied a REAL computer science or computer engineering major (and gotten adequate grades), she wouldn't have had this problem. So the truth is there won't be a solution for her except to settle for a low-end job like retail. That's what happens to people who don't have the right skills.
I know where you are coming from, and I don't dispute what you say, Forest, but here's the rub:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy
It's what Trina majored in that's worthless...
Yes, but the same can be said for 19 out of 20 higher ed "majors". Um, should that be legal? Is that acceptable business practices. Does higher ed maybe need some serious government regulation/overhaul like the financial industry badly needs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy
If she studied a REAL computer science or computer engineering major (and gotten adequate grades), she wouldn't have had this problem.
Well call me a fool but I actually just took the time to read the bulk of this thread. For the most part, I agree with everybody and see both sides.
1. I have been researching IT careers for a while now. Here is my gist. The industry is necessary and is here to stay. It does have jobs. There are a lot of big, serious downsides to working in IT. Outsourcing is indeed a very, very serious problem for IT workers in the USA. Probably not so bad that everyone should strike IT off their prospective careers list forever.
HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS FOR THE NAYSAYERS, Annerk, Stan4, hnrbq et. al.:
1. Higher ed institutions in the US exist to make money and support their own bureaucracies, for the most part. It's a racket which has a corollary function of (barely) educating some people. WHEN ARE THESE CORRUPT, GREEDY, SELF-SERVING OVER-PROMISING & UNDER-DELIVERING HIGHER ED INSTITUTIONS GOING TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT BY OUR GOV'T AND ELECTED REPS??
You had me until you began with the name calling rant. Not all colleges and universities are like that, and many are not-for-profit. People need to enroll and choose a career path with their eyes open. They are adults, and shouldn't need to have their hands held. A degree in women's studies is probably not going to get you very far in life, yet those degrees are offered. Why? Because there is a demand for them.
There are still opportunities in I/T, for engineers and in biosciences. Colleges educate people. They do not guarantee them employment, they do not guarantee that the degree they earn will help them find a job. It's kind of like going to the grocery store. You're guaranteed that there is food there, but there's no guarantee that after you cook it it will be any good. Should we sue grocery stores because we don't choose our food wisely and are a rotten cook? Should the government start telling grocery stores that they can't sell jellybeans because they have no real purpose except as an instrumrnt to perpetuate a fairytale?
Quote:
2. If college is a joke and a sham for everybody except those in Ivy League schools, it costs $100,000 but doesn't guarantee a decent job or anything else...WHY BOTHER?? What is your solution for people getting ahead in life? Work 40 hrs/wk at Target and another 40 at McD's?? Please, Mister and Misses Personal Responsibility, what is your solution?
First, choose your educational track wisely. Don't get a history degree and expect to become a multi-millionaire with a corner office at a Fortune 500. If you want to get a degree in I/T and get an engineering degree, you'll be able to get a job if you do an internship and get good grades. Pull a 2.2 GPA and have no practical experience, and you'll go no where fast.
Also spend the first two years at an inexpensive community college and take care of your core subjects, then transfer to the more expensive school to finish your degree. When it comes down to it, your BA/BS will have the name of the better school on it.
There are some fabulous state schools that are still reasonable in cost. The young man I mentioned earlier that just got the $100K I/T job? Rutgers University, total cost to him after financial aid was under $10K. He paid every dime using the money from his summer jobs. No student loans.
Quote:
P.S. Please don't retort by saying, "I never said college was a joke or sham." YES YOU DID. You just said it in so many other words. $100,000 in tuition but it doesn't really guarantee anything and don't expect much, blah blah. Well that's a joke. If a college education is so worthless, as you seem to claim, why doesn't it cost a fair price of maybe $2 then instead?? Furthermore, why even bother going??
I think a college education is very worthwhile. BUT, you've got to be reasonable about it. Go to the best college you can afford that you can also achieve at. There's no sense going to an Ivy League if you're going to flunk out. I think you've also got to be reasonable about career choices. There are some fields that are just overflowing right now, and there are other fields that you'll be hard pressed to recoup the cost of your education for many, many years--like a sociology degree. You'll end up making $20K a year working in social services, you can make $20K a year working in retail with no degree.
I think that recent grads also need to realize that MOST don't walk out and into a cushy job, and never have. Recent grads need to be willing to start from the bottom, especially if they have no relevent job experience (ie an intership in a relevent position). And if that means that a business major gets a job as a receptionist, that's beter than a lot of people with far more experience and the same education can say with the current unemployment rate.
Yes, but the same can be said for 19 out of 20 higher ed "majors". Um, should that be legal? Is that acceptable business practices. Does higher ed maybe need some serious government regulation/overhaul like the financial industry badly needs?
You would think that what you major in should prepare you for the job you’re targeting, especially in vocational fields like IT. If “19 out of 20” so-called majors don’t make the grade, then so be it. It was easy to point out Monroe’s deficiencies because they were so obvious. I don’t know what other fields you may have in mind. Government does have a case for intervention, in the sense that it can be on the hook for student loans for courses that don’t pan out. Perhaps it should be more selective in the way it guarantees loans, in the same way that insurance companies assess the risk of commercial loans they guarantee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy
That's very naive. And certainly not correct.
Unfortunately, you can’t back up your post. There is a big demand in the US for graduates with advanced math, programming and engineering skills. At the very least, a competent computer science graduate who can write sophisticated code won’t have the same kind of challenges Trina is facing. But if all one knows out of school is Oracle, CISCO and VB, then they simply won’t make the cut.
I know where you are coming from, and I don't dispute what you say, Forest, but here's the rub:
Yes, but the same can be said for 19 out of 20 higher ed "majors". Um, should that be legal? Is that acceptable business practices. Does higher ed maybe need some serious government regulation/overhaul like the financial industry badly needs?
I don't think so. You can't legislate common sense, and government shouldn't be involved with regualting what peole study in higher education--talk about a slippery slope.
Industries are cyclical. Twenty years ago a lot of universities were just beginning to offer computer enginnering and sciences degrees. In 1983 the bottom fell out of the market, and for the next 2-4 years, all those graduates were working at K-Mart assembling bicycles and cheap furniture. It eventually came back around.
One thing I do think we need to do is stop making anyone who isn't college bound feel like a failure, and bring back high school Vo-Tech as a career path for any student who would rather persue a trade, the culinary arts, nursing, or cosmetology as a career.
One thing I do think we need to do is stop making anyone who isn't college bound feel like a failure, and bring back high school Vo-Tech as a career path for any student who would rather persue a trade, the culinary arts, nursing, or cosmetology as a career.
One thing I do think we need to do is stop making anyone who isn't college bound feel like a failure, and bring back high school Vo-Tech as a career path for any student who would rather persue a trade, the culinary arts, nursing, or cosmetology as a career.
One thing I do think we need to do is stop making anyone who isn't college bound feel like a failure, and bring back high school Vo-Tech as a career path for any student who would rather persue a trade, the culinary arts, nursing, or cosmetology as a career.
I'm still in rep jail and can't rep you, but this is a splendid and valuable post!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
