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KCMO, you actually bring something to the table, though. You talk about ways KC can improve, what it's doing that is positive and negative and where it can go if all things go well. Do some people get too sensitive about criticism? Yes, of course they do, but again I've seen a lot of your posts and you also don't shy away from talking about the positives about the place.
Denverian doesn't do any of that. He just talks about how great it is to be out of KC. How much the airport sucks, how much downtown sucks, how much it hasn't changed in 30 years, how much Denver is awesome and KC sucks. He reminds me of your friend that moves away but calls you every weekend to tell you about how awesome his life in (insert city name here) is going, like you're supposed to be jealous.
I love KC and don't plan on moving away any time soon. Do I wish the entire metro would work together and get things done, like the airport, transit, business, etc., to make this city as well-known and popular as it should be? Yes, and in the long-term I hope this happens, and I'm excited to be a part of it and watch it move forward. But on a day-to-day basis, KC is awesome, and unless you're a grass is greener on the side person in general, you should have no excuse not to enjoy your time in this city.
KCMO, you actually bring something to the table, though. You talk about ways KC can improve, what it's doing that is positive and negative and where it can go if all things go well. Do some people get too sensitive about criticism? Yes, of course they do, but again I've seen a lot of your posts and you also don't shy away from talking about the positives about the place.
Denverian doesn't do any of that. He just talks about how great it is to be out of KC. How much the airport sucks, how much downtown sucks, how much it hasn't changed in 30 years, how much Denver is awesome and KC sucks. He reminds me of your friend that moves away but calls you every weekend to tell you about how awesome his life in (insert city name here) is going, like you're supposed to be jealous.
I love KC and don't plan on moving away any time soon. Do I wish the entire metro would work together and get things done, like the airport, transit, business, etc., to make this city as well-known and popular as it should be? Yes, and in the long-term I hope this happens, and I'm excited to be a part of it and watch it move forward. But on a day-to-day basis, KC is awesome, and unless you're a grass is greener on the side person in general, you should have no excuse not to enjoy your time in this city.
And, if I may, KC is awesome (outside of the summer heat ) precisely because it is not DC, Denver, Boston, Manhattan, or any other "progressive" city held up foolishly as an ideal.
KC has had a very good thing going for a lot of years and has the good sense to keep being itself.
Sorry, CrownVic, yes, KC has had a good thing going, but wanting to be a popular larger city is not an "ideal." The suburbs are boring, car culture is dying and young people want "more."
No one is saying it has to "become" those other cities. Why does a nicer airport, and rail transit automatically mean Kansas City is not being "itself" anymore? The people and the culture will always make KC what it is; a wonderful place to live. A new airport and people on streetcars won't change the backbone of Kansas City.
Sorry, CrownVic, yes, KC has had a good thing going, but wanting to be a popular larger city is not an "ideal." The suburbs are boring, car culture is dying and young people want "more."
No one is saying it has to "become" those other cities. Why does a nicer airport, and rail transit automatically mean Kansas City is not being "itself" anymore? The people and the culture will always make KC what it is; a wonderful place to live. A new airport and people on streetcars won't change the backbone of Kansas City.
I give up.
The car culture is not dying and never will. You think you're the first generation that wanted more? Not even close, but you may be the first generation that has accepted the ridiculous notion that less is more.
You want a new airport and people on streetcars for all the wrong reasons. And yes, forcing them on a city that knows better and thus doesn't want them would break its back.
Last edited by CrownVic95; 05-08-2014 at 03:04 PM..
KCMO, you actually bring something to the table, though. You talk about ways KC can improve, what it's doing that is positive and negative and where it can go if all things go well. Do some people get too sensitive about criticism? Yes, of course they do, but again I've seen a lot of your posts and you also don't shy away from talking about the positives about the place.
Denverian doesn't do any of that. He just talks about how great it is to be out of KC. How much the airport sucks, how much downtown sucks, how much it hasn't changed in 30 years, how much Denver is awesome and KC sucks. He reminds me of your friend that moves away but calls you every weekend to tell you about how awesome his life in (insert city name here) is going, like you're supposed to be jealous.
I love KC and don't plan on moving away any time soon. Do I wish the entire metro would work together and get things done, like the airport, transit, business, etc., to make this city as well-known and popular as it should be? Yes, and in the long-term I hope this happens, and I'm excited to be a part of it and watch it move forward. But on a day-to-day basis, KC is awesome, and unless you're a grass is greener on the side person in general, you should have no excuse not to enjoy your time in this city.
Agree 100%. But KC didn't get awesome for the reasons it is today without people like me constantly on my soapbox trying to make it a better place.
KC was not awesome 15 years ago. I mean the city has always had some great things about it, but KC was a total and complete disaster. It was basically suburbs and a decaying city and half of KC's suburbs were a mess too (KCK, Independence, South KC, stagnate northland growth etc). Other than a quick office building boom in the early 1980's, KC had seen very little development and investment in the central city and was hemorrhaging more than anything. (luckily KC had a local devleper that built some spec office towers in the 1980's or KC's skyline would be like Memphis or Buffalo and relatively unchanged since the 1930's and to a lesser extend the 60's.)
I hated KC and loved it at the same time growing up there. While I complain today that KC is still behind when it comes to urban residential development, there were almost no places to live in the city like there are now. You had pretty much no choice but the suburbs. Just a few places around the plaza, maybe quality hill etc. Most of central KCMO was either vacant or crime ridden. Union Station was falling down, Liberty Memorial was falling down, brush creek was an eyesore, pro sports teams were leaving the city or threatening to leave, national zoo organizations were threatening to close the KC Zoo, 18th and Vine didn't exist, there were haunted houses in the middle of the downtown financial district, the P&L District was parking lots, driving through midtown was nothing but prostitution and drug dealers, almost all the bridges, sidewalks, street lights, traffic signals etc were literally crumbling and failing. Nearly all parks were avoided by locals, but heavily used by illegal activities, the riverfront was a freaking dumping ground for the city (when Kemper's roof collapsed, the debris went there for example). I could go on and on.
And guess what. People in KC were just as sensitive and against me back then too. KC was fine, KC didn't need to "impress anybody".
Damn good thing there are people in KC that do actually want to see the city improve and there is still plenty of room for improvement today. So I may come across as harsh and the city is like night and day from what it was just 10-15 years ago, but it's in my blood now. Twenty something years of people telling me I'm full of it takes it toll. But I still feel like I have contributed and done my part to make it a better place and if I have stepped on toes in that process so be it.
I have kind of moved on from KC compared to how I was before, but I still want to see the city improve and get more national respect even if most people that still live there don't care. Why? Certainly not because I hate KC...
CrownVic, no need to give up. I like seeing you go back and forth with people. We obviously just probably don't agree on a lot. Which is great, and that's why I enjoy these forums.
From what I've seen is that actually a lot of people in the city want the streetcar. If you don't live in the city and you don't want it, then great, because you don't have to use it nor are you going to be paying for it unless you frequent places in the TDD very often. Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
Explain how my generation has "accepted the ridiculous notion that less is more"? I don't understand what you mean by that.
Explain what reasons I have that are wrong about wanting the streetcar? It's already proven to boost economic development along the starter line. That seems like a pretty good reason to me. Economic development is good, right? I want it for that reason - to encourage development downtown for more people to live, work and play. I don't want it because "Man, busses are gross" or anything like that. I ride the MAX. I enjoy it, but the sad truth is that a bus system doesn't increase development.
So you disagree with me on the streetcars, "more" and car culture, but there's one thing you didn't disagree with me on - and that is that the suburbs are boring
Once again. There is nothing wrong with suburbs. But they are much better when the surround a vibrant city core. The best metros are the ones where the suburbs co-exist with the core city and the entire metro is on the same page. That's just not the case in KC.
Agree 100%. But KC didn't get awesome for the reasons it is today without people like me constantly on my soapbox trying to make it a better place.
KC was not awesome 15 years ago. I mean the city has always had some great things about it, but KC was a total and complete disaster. It was basically suburbs and a decaying city and half of KC's suburbs were a mess too (KCK, Independence, South KC, stagnate northland growth etc). Other than a quick office building boom in the early 1980's, KC had seen very little development and investment in the central city and was hemorrhaging more than anything. (luckily KC had a local devleper that built some spec office towers in the 1980's or KC's skyline would be like Memphis or Buffalo and relatively unchanged since the 1930's and to a lesser extend the 60's.)
I hated KC and loved it at the same time growing up there. While I complain today that KC is still behind when it comes to urban residential development, there were almost no places to live in the city like there are now. You had pretty much no choice but the suburbs. Just a few places around the plaza, maybe quality hill etc. Most of central KCMO was either vacant or crime ridden. Union Station was falling down, Liberty Memorial was falling down, brush creek was an eyesore, pro sports teams were leaving the city or threatening to leave, national zoo organizations were threatening to close the KC Zoo, 18th and Vine didn't exist, there were haunted houses in the middle of the downtown financial district, the P&L District was parking lots, driving through midtown was nothing but prostitution and drug dealers, almost all the bridges, sidewalks, street lights, traffic signals etc were literally crumbling and failing. Nearly all parks were avoided by locals, but heavily used by illegal activities, the riverfront was a freaking dumping ground for the city (when Kemper's roof collapsed, the debris went there for example). I could go on and on.
And guess what. People in KC were just as sensitive and against me back then too. KC was fine, KC didn't need to "impress anybody".
Damn good thing there are people in KC that do actually want to see the city improve and there is still plenty of room for improvement today. So I may come across as harsh and the city is like night and day from what it was just 10-15 years ago, but it's in my blood now. Twenty something years of people telling me I'm full of it takes it toll. But I still feel like I have contributed and done my part to make it a better place and if I have stepped on toes in that process so be it.
I have kind of moved on from KC compared to how I was before, but I still want to see the city improve and get more national respect even if most people that still live there don't care. Why? Certainly not because I hate KC...
KC isn't even the only city that was awful 10-15 years ago. I lived in Northern Virginia (near where you do now) between 1995-2000 and many of the same arguments you make about KC could've been made about DC.
DC in 1995 had:
- Crumbling infrastructure
- A 3 way border war between MD, VA, and DC
- Massive amounts of people complaining about infrastructure improvements. The debate going on here about KCI was going on in DC about the replacement of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge
- Relatively little new growth (in terms of office buildings) in the core city
- 2 horrible airports (IAD and DCA both had serious issues and were stuck in the 1960s and 1970s
- Unchecked suburban sprawl
- One of the worst murder rates in the country
- An ex-con mayor
- Completely ineffective and clueless city government
- Most non-federal areas of the city were places that most of the general public would never go to
I'm glad DC had visionaries as well. The 2014 DC and the 1995 DC are almost unrecognizable from one another.
KC isn't even the only city that was awful 10-15 years ago. I lived in Northern Virginia (near where you do now) between 1995-2000 and many of the same arguments you make about KC could've been made about DC.
DC in 1995 had:
- Crumbling infrastructure
- A 3 way border war between MD, VA, and DC
- Massive amounts of people complaining about infrastructure improvements. The debate going on here about KCI was going on in DC about the replacement of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge
- Relatively little new growth (in terms of office buildings) in the core city
- 2 horrible airports (IAD and DCA both had serious issues and were stuck in the 1960s and 1970s
- Unchecked suburban sprawl
- One of the worst murder rates in the country
- An ex-con mayor
- Completely ineffective and clueless city government
- Most non-federal areas of the city were places that most of the general public would never go to
I'm glad DC had visionaries as well. The 2014 DC and the 1995 DC are almost unrecognizable from one another.
yea, I have always followed DC pretty close. It has done more of a 180 I think than KC has, although I think many parts of DC were still thriving in the in the 90's, it's just that the bad parts were really bad and the city gov was so corrupt.
It's been really amazing watching massive stretches of the city turn from crap to densely developed and very popular areas. Just since I have been here, I have watched areas with combined developments that have footprints larger the the country club plaza in KC replace blight in many areas of DC. If you like watching cities boom, DC is a fun place to be right now.
I don't even try to compare KC to DC though. I think KC would have a difficult time even competing with Baltimore and Baltimore has been one of the slower growing central cities.
I'm not trying to downplay all the great things that have happened in KC. My point was that people there thought KC was fine back then when it wasn't. People just didn't really care. I think that's getting better in KC, but it has a ways to go and it still has the insular culture of not wanting or needing to upgrade or change anything just so they can be like other cities. Sometimes being like other cities it a better option than doing nothing or taking decades to the same things it takes other cities a few years to do.
Agree 100%. But KC didn't get awesome for the reasons it is today without people like me constantly on my soapbox trying to make it a better place....
Geez dude really? I guess we should all thank you, bravo for all your dedication.
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) precisely because it is not DC, Denver, Boston, Manhattan, or any other "progressive" city held up foolishly as an ideal.
I give up.
