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NOTHING is being "cut." The changes apply to future hires and young (Tier III) employees. Please arm yourselves with the facts before spouting off about this situation.
And, yes, money has been siphoned out of this fund for decades -- long before Bevin came along to TRY to fix it before it goes completely bankrupt.
Trouble is, as he's finding out, you can't fix stupid!
MM, of course you have the right to say and think whatever you want about the situation concerning Kentucky's teachers and public employees and their pensions and other benefits.
As do I.
However, you don't have the right to call me a "mob", since I responded to your post with a different viewpoint, at least not without my strong objection to having such a term applied to me.
I am one individual, and was the first person here to respond to you. How does that make me a "mob"? Admittedly others share my view - others who unlike you, actually live here in Kentucky, and many of whom worked here in the public sector for years, as did I.
Sharing the same opinions as do many others who are impacted by this situation does not make me a "mob", or mean that I am demonstrating "mob mentality". It does mean that I will continue to speak out about this and other injustices, as is my right, both here and elsewhere. It means I will vote for candidates who share my concerns - as I just did this afternoon. It means I will not be cowed by slighting remarks from individuals or groups who have no connection with public employment and public schools and teachers in Kentucky.
Unlike you, MM, I was a public employee for 28 years, 25 of them in my native Kentucky. I believe according to what you've posted you live in New York City and are about to complete your first year of teaching there. I am not familiar with the situation for teachers in New York, so will not attempt to comment on it.
Nothing you have posted indicates that you have any connection with Kentucky or Kentucky's public schools or public employees. You do not appear to have ever lived or spent any time here, or have any other connection - yet you have all kinds of notions about Kentucky's teachers and public employees, most of them negative, and you did not hesitate to post those notions. As is your right, of course.
Similarly, I do not have any familiarity with the plight of public teachers and other public employees in New York - but I do not post about topics with which I lack personal familiarity. I could do so, of course - it's certainly my right to do so - but I'd look ignorant and would demonstrate bad judgment, should I attempt to do so.
However, I can certainly comment on your apparent attitude in regard to teaching as a profession, as it seems to differ substantially from that of the many good, dedicated career teachers and public employees I have known throughout my life (which is considerably longer than yours, judging by what you've written on C-D).
As Kygman has noted, Kentucky's funds guaranteed for teacher and public employee retirement were diverted to other purposes. It was proposed by the current gubernatorial administration that retired public teachers and other public employees make up the resulting deficit - caused by poor handling of these funds at state level - by paying back their cost of living raises.
So retirees certainly WERE negatively impacted by this and other clueless proposals, which thankfully did not pass. For now.
That's why teachers and other public employees were in Frankfort - to alert their representatives that an injustice was being advocated, and to push for the enforcement of the laws which require full funding of retired teachers and public employee retirees' pensions. Not to clamor for anything that was not already rightfully theirs. Just to see justice done.
A legal promise is a promise and a contract - and legal promises should be kept. If you do not agree with this simple, very basic premise of democratic government, you have no business teaching American history to American children in an American public school.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 05-22-2018 at 02:07 PM..
Oldclothesandsuch and Otterhere, kudos to you guys. It's not easy having a different perspective than the "mob" majority. Seeing you guys stand up for your common sense points, page after page, against users who are resorting to name-calling rhetoric to articulate their points--all whilst claiming that this isn't partisan or politically motivated--is great. I originally wasn't going to participate, but I felt it was my obligation to tell you that I and probably several viewers agree with your points.
I mean come on, we're seeing terms like carpetbagger and anti-education being thrown around as if they're incontrovertibly true and not just the subjective framing of a political perspective. Soon people will start using phrasings like "child-hating" or "pension-stealing". Speaking as someone who plans on relocating to another state soon to be with a more agreeable political constituency//deal with less draconian laws, to think I might be called a carpetbagger if I decide to run for office is silly. By those standards, the majority of all of politicians throughout American history have been "carpetbaggers." By those standards, Abraham Lincoln would've been a carpetbagger before the term was even coined, running for office in Republican-dominant Illinois as opposed to his native Kentucky--which voted against him twice.
Not like I have any dog in this race, I am a teacher but not in the state of Kentucky. That said, I think for teachers to demand tax payers supplement any wage-increase or sustain their pensions is ridiculous. Everybody knows what they're in for when they choose to teach in public schools. Couple that with the money they save by spending years not opting into SS and having summers off to pursue other work--and it becomes pretty ridiculous to demand that politicians use taxpayer dollars to pay you even more. Like it was said earlier, if someone's only plan for retirement is to live off a government pension that can be compromised through legislation or an economic crash--that's not a stable plan for the future. I do not subscribe to this notion that those who disapprove of the situation are devoid of responsibility and blameless victims.
As a 23 year-old you have been a teacher for only a year, maybe two. Are you planning on never getting a raise? Because as a teacher, the only way you get a raise is if more tax payer dollars are collected.
Is this your first “summer off” or have you been renewed and discovered it’s not really a summer off since you still have obligations and/or training the district has made mandatory? If it is your first “summer off” have you discovered finding a job for all that time off isn’t quite as simple as you thought and involves minimum wage?
When I was 23 years-old I didn’t appreciate the concerns older teachers constantly had about pensions either. Nor did I truly appreciate the impact the natural dearth of upward job mobility of the professional would have on my lifetime earning potential. When I first started working my pay was near enough to all my buddies in other fields that it didn’t seem bad. When my husband and I started out I made slightly less than him, these days I make less than a quarter of what he does - and while I certainly have more free time than he does during the summer, I work more hours than he does during the school year.
By the way, the teachers themselves don’t get to decide to opt out of Social Security, the state decides they aren’t going to allow them to participate in it. One of the sticking points the unions and teachers’ associations have about the changes for new hires is that they want Kentucky to allow their new teachers to participate in Social Security since they will be not have a safety net of a defined benefit.
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A High School Teacher Beat the House Majority Leader in Kentucky's Republican Primary
(LANCASTER, Ky.) — A high school math teacher ousted the majority leader of the Kentucky House of Representatives on Tuesday, with a narrow win in the GOP primary race.
Travis Brenda credited a groundswell of teacher support for the win and said it sends a message that teachers and public workers won’t be silent. His race follows a wave of education protests at the Kentucky Capitol and elsewhere around the country, with teachers and others calling for increased pay and other benefits.
Nothing "interesting" about it -- or at least nothing surprising. Despite the fact that teachers suffered no loss of benefits whatsoever (the representatives listened, heard, and aquiessed to their [unreasonable] demands), they vowed to vote them all out at the first opportunity, replacing them with their own (teachers, who ran in record numbers). Childish and spiteful, but at least in character.
Nothing "interesting" about it -- or at least nothing surprising. Despite the fact that teachers suffered no loss of benefits whatsoever (the representatives listened, heard, and aquiessed to their [unreasonable] demands), they vowed to vote them all out at the first opportunity, replacing them with their own (teachers, who ran in record numbers). Childish and spiteful, but at least in character.
You think it's "childish and spiteful" for someone to run for political office, if that someone dislikes what's going on, feels it does not represent them or their best interests, and thinks they can do better at serving the public? What would you term just settling for the status quo, regardless of its flaws?
Do you have any knowledge of American history and government, particularly of politics? How about Kentucky history and government?...and Kentucky politics, which apparently still "are the damnedest"?
Hesitant to wade into all this, but what bugged me most, was not necessarily the policy but the process. The Bill was rushed through in under a day and I don't believe the text of the bill was available to the general public as the general assembly was voting on it. There should have been more time for discussion and review before votes were taken.
Hesitant to wade into all this, but what bugged me most, was not necessarily the policy but the process. The Bill was rushed through in under a day and I don't believe the text of the bill was available to the general public as the general assembly was voting on it. There should have been more time for discussion and review before votes were taken.
Plenty of discussion preceeded it (essentially the entire session), and the legislators were transparent about what it contained (and that was proven true). Do nothing, and NO ONE will have a pension. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite -- yes, spite -- your face.
Nothing "interesting" about it -- or at least nothing surprising. Despite the fact that teachers suffered no loss of benefits whatsoever (the representatives listened, heard, and aquiessed to their [unreasonable] demands), they vowed to vote them all out at the first opportunity, replacing them with their own (teachers, who ran in record numbers). Childish and spiteful, but at least in character.
What’s childish about it? That is the way our government is supposed to work - if the elected official is not representing you then do something, including running yourself, to get them out of office.
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Originally Posted by otterhere
Plenty of discussion preceeded it (essentially the entire session), and the legislators were transparent about what it contained (and that was proven true). Do nothing, and NO ONE will have a pension. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite -- yes, spite -- your face.
The vast majority of people agree it was a nasty, underhanded move designed to sneak it in there. There will be quite a few Kentucky politicians that will lose seats over it - and they should.
By the way, this one lost in the primary, in all likelihood it will be uglier in the general election.
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So you like what you got, but now you don't like the way you got it? Okay; just trying to make sense of it all!
To vote against someone JUST because your union told you to and/or to vote for someone JUST because it's "one of us" is childish and spiteful, especially considering that the former gave you exactly what you wanted AND solved the problem in the process. You're seeking "payback"... Why? It frankly makes these supposedly brilliant teachers look not very bright. JMHO.
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