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They are working hard on these apartments, but still look to not be "move-in ready" yet. I know when I viewed the virtual model and spoke with the sales rep last August, she said a "November 15-December 1 move-in" was the target.
I can't help but think there are a few people who rented these for a Dec 1 move-in who are not able to do so yet.
I think these apartments are too overpriced for the Kingsport market, there are too many of them, and I think the other competitive new apartment complexes that have opened in the past 2 years in Kingsport beat this complex to the punch, in terms of getting new residents.
Namely, The Retreat at Meadowview, The Overlook (behind Kmart on Stone Drive) and The Villas at Riverbend, behind Walmart on Fort Henry Drive.
They are working hard on these apartments, but still look to not be "move-in ready" yet. I know when I viewed the virtual model and spoke with the sales rep last August, she said a "November 15-December 1 move-in" was the target.
I can't help but think there are a few people who rented these for a Dec 1 move-in who are not able to do so yet.
I think these apartments are too overpriced for the Kingsport market, there are too many of them, and I think the other competitive new apartment complexes that have opened in the past 2 years in Kingsport beat this complex to the punch, in terms of getting new residents.
Namely, The Retreat at Meadowview, The Overlook (behind Kmart on Stone Drive) and The Villas at Riverbend, behind Walmart on Fort Henry Drive.
Perhaps this evidence is anecdotal at best, but several members of my graduating class (in both undergrad and grad school) secured employment with Eastman (or on the financial audit engagement team with PricewaterhouseCoopers). Most, if not all, are still there. Additionally, several current and former colleagues have worked or do currently work for Eastman. Not a single one lives/lived in Kingsport proper. Most live in JC or Gray, while one commutes from Greeneville and is looking to move closer - but he refuses to consider Kingsport. (For reference, all individuals to whom I am referring are <30.)
Kingsport's issues are well-documented, but the idea that the very demographic this development targets is (in my experience) universally opposed to residing within the city is...alarming.
Kingsport's issues are well-documented, but the idea that the very demographic this development targets is (in my experience) universally opposed to residing within the city is...alarming.
This. And the reason young professionals choose not to live in Kingsport has nothing to do with a lack of housing options. I drove by this development the other day and was surprised at how large it is. With the amount of money the city gave away to get it built and the potential (I think likely) lack of tenants that will lease at the current price points, this could become a massive white elephant in Kingsport's downtown.
I doubt I would consider this particular complex because of its proximity to Domtar, but...
I'm currently commuting from Johnson City to Kingsport near Indian Path most days. I'm in a Johnson City office some days. Within a month, I'll be working in Kingsport at that Indian Path office full-time. Before I moved to Johnson City, I commuted from close to Sullivan Central to near downtown Johnson City.
This commuting is getting old The commute from where I was in Kingsport to downtown Johnson City was 30 minutes on a good day. It was easy to hit a 45 minute commute time as 26 going into Johnson City is often slow between Boone's Creek and State of Franklin, or a wreck. The Johnson City to Kingsport commute is a bit better most days, but can also slow down at Lincoln Street/J.B. Dennis intersection. It often takes me as long to get from Indian Path to I-26 in the evening as it does to get all the way back to State of Franklin from the time I'm on the interstate.
I live past Cardinal Park and this is just too much of a commute for me. It's actually worse than when I lived in Indy. I'm going to rent in Kingsport, probably at The Retreat or the complex behind K-Mart, until I can leave the area. The only real doable option for me is to live and work in Johnson City.
Yes, Johnson City is much nicer, but I'm losing 45 mins to an hour per day commuting back and forth that I'd have back living in Kingsport. That's not counting the extra gas and miles on the car. My free time has definitely taken a hit vs. living and working in JC/JC or Kingsport/Kingsport.
I'm surprised that younger people aren't even considering the newer Kingsport apartments. While I'm as big of a Kingsport detractor as you'll find, I'd prefer having my free time back, and going to Johnson City a night or two a week to socialize vs. the extra commute.
Perhaps this evidence is anecdotal at best, but several members of my graduating class (in both undergrad and grad school) secured employment with Eastman (or on the financial audit engagement team with PricewaterhouseCoopers). Most, if not all, are still there. Additionally, several current and former colleagues have worked or do currently work for Eastman. Not a single one lives/lived in Kingsport proper. Most live in JC or Gray, while one commutes from Greeneville and is looking to move closer - but he refuses to consider Kingsport. (For reference, all individuals to whom I am referring are <30.)
Kingsport's issues are well-documented, but the idea that the very demographic this development targets is (in my experience) universally opposed to residing within the city is...alarming.
If downtown Kingsport would beef up its restaurant/bar options, it might be a player for the under 30 set. But Johnson City just blows Kingsport away with options for restaurant/bar and a fun bar scene.
A good friend of mine came in the other weekend, and I took him out to "bar crawl" in downtown Johnson City. I had never really done that around here.
We started off at Yeehaw Brewing, then over to Wild Wing, then down to Atlantic Ale House, and then over to Numan's Pub. Was a fun night. We had to wrap after that, but didn't get to go to a couple other spots I had on my radar--Barley Waters, Wonderland, and a couple more.
There were quite a few people out and about, and there was a great energy, and a pretty diverse mix of folks too. JC is a fun downtown and getting better.
I've gone out in Kingsport twice like this--when I first moved back, in summer 2017. We went to Sleepy Owl (which I actually do like a lot), then over to the outdoor bar at "High Voltage." From there, we went to only restaurants, due to lack of options. Sleepy Owl was fun, but the options pale in comparison to JC.
Kingsport needs more energy in its downtown. Aesthetically, it has the best dense layout of a downtown in the tri-cities. But it feels like a town that is very conservative, safe, and most folks settling in for bed by 9pm. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not what attracts the millenials for live/work/spending money.
I doubt I would consider this particular complex because of its proximity to Domtar, but...
I'm currently commuting from Johnson City to Kingsport near Indian Path most days. I'm in a Johnson City office some days. Within a month, I'll be working in Kingsport at that Indian Path office full-time. Before I moved to Johnson City, I commuted from close to Sullivan Central to near downtown Johnson City.
This commuting is getting old The commute from where I was in Kingsport to downtown Johnson City was 30 minutes on a good day. It was easy to hit a 45 minute commute time as 26 going into Johnson City is often slow between Boone's Creek and State of Franklin, or a wreck. The Johnson City to Kingsport commute is a bit better most days, but can also slow down at Lincoln Street/J.B. Dennis intersection. It often takes me as long to get from Indian Path to I-26 in the evening as it does to get all the way back to State of Franklin from the time I'm on the interstate.
I live past Cardinal Park and this is just too much of a commute for me. It's actually worse than when I lived in Indy. I'm going to rent in Kingsport, probably at The Retreat or the complex behind K-Mart, until I can leave the area. The only real doable option for me is to live and work in Johnson City.
Yes, Johnson City is much nicer, but I'm losing 45 mins to an hour per day commuting back and forth that I'd have back living in Kingsport. That's not counting the extra gas and miles on the car. My free time has definitely taken a hit vs. living and working in JC/JC or Kingsport/Kingsport.
I'm surprised that younger people aren't even considering the newer Kingsport apartments. While I'm as big of a Kingsport detractor as you'll find, I'd prefer having my free time back, and going to Johnson City a night or two a week to socialize vs. the extra commute.
I completely understand the commuting thing. I used to commute and it gets very old.
I'm fortunate now that I work fully remotely, so I have options if I want to go in or work somewhere else. But, it is definitely a huge time suck if you get caught up in traffic headed to work.
I actually wound up renting an apartment at the Retreat. I travel often for work too, so I'm gone about a week a month. However, when here, I do have to say that the complex is pretty quiet, and everyone is friendly. Of course it is also brand new, so there are few issues with anything that I've encountered.
For the money, it's the best bang for buck in Kingsport, regarding an apartment complex.
This. And the reason young professionals choose not to live in Kingsport has nothing to do with a lack of housing options. I drove by this development the other day and was surprised at how large it is. With the amount of money the city gave away to get it built and the potential (I think likely) lack of tenants that will lease at the current price points, this could become a massive white elephant in Kingsport's downtown.
I also think it will have a lot of vacancies. I think the 1BRs started at $840. I think the only place in the area that is starting at that without regular rent specials is The Reserve in JC near Sam's Club. This Town Park Lofts is even more expensive than most of the 1BR lofts in downtown JC - London's, "Yellow Roof" on Spring St, etc. One of the biggest advantages of this area is, supposedly, the cost of living. $800/1BRs are much more Asheville than Kingsport.
There's really no reason to pay that in Kingsport. Villas at River Bend has routinely had new 1BRs between $630-$660. These are nice apartments and did not cut many corners. Some have not even been lived in. The Retreat at Meadowview has had their 1BRs, which are luxury by any local standard, to $750/month at times.
This is also an enormous building. The bottom looks like it could have a lot of retail, and there is likely some sort of center courtyard/parking arrangement. This is something that might, might work in Indianapolis at this scale. It reminds me of a largely failing project near where I previously worked called The Ironworks. Ironworks was shaped a lot like this building, and while there was a big shot of retail and restaurants at the outset, it all petered out and now those lower levels are empty, and rents are falling on the apartments, which aren't as appealing with the retail gone.
If downtown Kingsport would beef up its restaurant/bar options, it might be a player for the under 30 set. But Johnson City just blows Kingsport away with options for restaurant/bar and a fun bar scene.
A good friend of mine came in the other weekend, and I took him out to "bar crawl" in downtown Johnson City. I had never really done that around here.
We started off at Yeehaw Brewing, then over to Wild Wing, then down to Atlantic Ale House, and then over to Numan's Pub. Was a fun night. We had to wrap after that, but didn't get to go to a couple other spots I had on my radar--Barley Waters, Wonderland, and a couple more.
There were quite a few people out and about, and there was a great energy, and a pretty diverse mix of folks too. JC is a fun downtown and getting better.
I've gone out in Kingsport twice like this--when I first moved back, in summer 2017. We went to Sleepy Owl (which I actually do like a lot), then over to the outdoor bar at "High Voltage." From there, we went to only restaurants, due to lack of options. Sleepy Owl was fun, but the options pale in comparison to JC.
Kingsport needs more energy in its downtown. Aesthetically, it has the best dense layout of a downtown in the tri-cities. But it feels like a town that is very conservative, safe, and most folks settling in for bed by 9pm. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not what attracts the millenials for live/work/spending money.
This is what I don't understand at all about this Town Park Lofts project.
There isn't much at all in downtown Kingsport to DO, much less for the Millennial apartment type crowd, as far as dining or drinking is concerned. Combine the lack of energy with the factory pollution, and who honestly wants to live in the midst of any of that? IMO, the developers would struggle to rent these units at slightly below market rates because of the unappealing nature of being right next to Domtar! The layout is meaningless with Domtar stinking it up a few blocks away.
Main St. Pizza (which has its flagship restaurant in Johnson City) and Stir Fry Cafe are the only two restaurants even worth stopping at in downtown Kingsport for dinner. The big gem in downtown Kingsport is really Mustard Seed, which is a lunch stop. I like Stir Fry, but it might be a once a month type thing for me, given my dining preferences. I'm at Southern Craft BBQ pretty much every week.
Macado's is a glorified deli. Sleepy Owl, IMO, is by far the weakest craft brewery in the area, and their owner had a medical issue back in the fall, and is still out of commission.
I think downtown Kingsport would have been in a completely different spot if Kingsport Grocery could be reopened, preferably by Erich Allen from Studio Brew. Studio Brew beer and Erich's team's cooking could get the wheels spinning, and he also has music connections.
This is what I don't understand at all about this Town Park Lofts project.
There isn't much at all in downtown Kingsport to DO, much less for the Millennial apartment type crowd, as far as dining or drinking is concerned. Combine the lack of energy with the factory pollution, and who honestly wants to live in the midst of any of that? IMO, the developers would struggle to rent these units at slightly below market rates because of the unappealing nature of being right next to Domtar! The layout is meaningless with Domtar stinking it up a few blocks away.
Main St. Pizza (which has its flagship restaurant in Johnson City) and Stir Fry Cafe are the only two restaurants even worth stopping at in downtown Kingsport for dinner. The big gem in downtown Kingsport is really Mustard Seed, which is a lunch stop. I like Stir Fry, but it might be a once a month type thing for me, given my dining preferences. I'm at Southern Craft BBQ pretty much every week.
Macado's is a glorified deli. Sleepy Owl, IMO, is by far the weakest craft brewery in the area, and their owner had a medical issue back in the fall, and is still out of commission.
I think downtown Kingsport would have been in a completely different spot if Kingsport Grocery could be reopened, preferably by Erich Allen from Studio Brew. Studio Brew beer and Erich's team's cooking could get the wheels spinning, and he also has music connections.
So true. Kingsport needs to beef up its "to-do" activities for that group--and the only way that's happening is for more bars/restaurants to go in down there. But, honestly, Kingsport does not have the university energy that JC has, so unless downtown Kingsport expands the college branch they have (which would be an excellent start) with Northeast State/Milligan/ETSU, the youthful energy will be lacking.
Also, it seems like in the past 2 - 3 years, there have not been any major restaurant/bars opening in Kingsport, other than Surf Brew on Stone Drive. I do know downtown Kingsport has a Bays Mountain Brewery in the process of opening--so that is a positive sign, at least.
If you compare the Retreat at Meadowview with the Town Center Lofts, by the number of apartments, the Retreat has 72 total 1, 2 and 3 bedrooms spanning over 3 buildings. There are 2 other buildings proposed, and should start construction later this year, from what the leasing manager says.
Town Center Lofts has AT LEAST double this amount of units, and offers a downtown location, but a location that is by a smelly factory and a location that has sparse close amenities, other than Food City, Barberitos, the sports bar (forgot the name) chain there, and Burger King. Granted, you go deeper into downtown and you get a few more restaurants and bars, but both cater to the 9-5 set, and dinner set, with a close up shop time of 10pm.
There seems to be a major misalignment to which the city leaders and developers PERCEIVE downtown Kingsport as being, to the actual REALITY of downtown Kingsport. It may hit them hard in the wallet on this project, unless they reduce prices by a couple hundred bucks a month on each unit.
BTW, WHAT exactly is the issue with Kingsport Grocery Company? It's in a prime, older beautiful building, a terrific downtown location (in general), and a unique concept and name. It could be a huge driver to kickstart downtown's dining scene. Do you know if there is a fine/permit issue with that building--or something stopping developers from opening a restaurant/bar there? It makes little sense to me. Kingsport is lacking in a diverse restaurant scene in general, and a more upscale, trendy restaurant/bar downtown would do incredible, if the food and service were good.
Last edited by jjbradleynyc; 01-16-2019 at 12:39 PM..
If you go back and read the discussions between city leaders that have been occurring over the past 5 years regarding the IGA property being developed into apartments, they stated this was a "If we build it, they will come" scenario. The city leaders pushed this project to jump-start downtown growth. With hundreds of more downtown residents then the downtown businesses will hopefully be more successful. In that same argument, the city stated that they want this Crossgate project to promote new infill growth in and around the complex as well as throughout downtown.
I agree that downtown businesses need the additional foot/car traffic to succeed. This complex of apartments could be something to help fuel growth. It will also be there in the future when the downtown area takes off more, as I believe it will just at a slower pace. A large upper class housing project is what all successful downtowns need. This helped Knoxville majorly in the mid 2000's
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