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I am still not sure why we continue to blame C.W. or any of the lenders for our failures. I do not remember seeing anywhere on my loan documents where they are obligated to make life easier on us if we either cannot pay the loan or choose not to pay the loan. I do not doubt CW has and continues to be run into the ground while B of A waits to see if they can lower their offer to 1 or 2 dollars per share. Berkshire Hathaway rarely screws up on anything. In the end, should they choose to still purchase the company they will do so at a cost less than the value of just the infrastructure. That is just the nature of big business. Right or wrong that is the way it is in this country as we, the American citizens, have given them the power to do so.
I just do not understand anyones concept where the lenders should rewrite the loans as the values of homes continue to drop. Did the loan agreement state the lenders would enjoy the benefit should your home have gone up in value or guarentee the borrower would continue to make money as theri properties values skyrocketed?? No. Housing is no different from other big businesses who are struggling in todays economy. If anyone has purchased a new vehicle on credit we know the moment we drive the car off the lot we generally have lost 10 -20% of the vehicles value including tax and license. Should those lenders be required to lower their loan amount when the individual says "Hey, my car is no longer worth what I paid for it". No one has a right to tell me how to run my business thus I will not tell CW or the banks how to run their. However I do not purchase their stock nor support those companies in any way other than getting the best loans I can for my properties. If I feel their rates are too high I just don't purchase.
Did anyone break a borrowers arm to make them sign up for a loan they potentially could not afford??? Did the lenders force the individuals to accept an ARM with a low starting interest because the borrower could not qualify for a fixed rate loan?? Did the lenders force us to refinance our properties to take out some of that great equity we had accrued and use it for our vacation to Maui or to buy a new car?? Are the lenders liable because we chose NOT to read the contracts or do our own due diligence to see if we could afford the payments when those ARMS adjusted?? Since when did we as Americans decide a contract is only valid as long as we are happy with the results???
I understand very well the nature of the economy and its effect on the housing market and most all markets. I do not wish to see anyone pushed out of their homes as they go upside down, lose their jobs or ARMS adjust to a point where the home owner can no longer afford the payments. But when did this world become Eden?? When did it become some playground where no bad things happen. And more importantly when did OUR making mistakes become someone elses burden?? And when does it become acceptable to blame the EVIL loan companies for offering us such great teaser rates that we failed to analyze and put our names on the dotted line without any regard for what might happen down the road??
The real question I am asking is when do we as the American Public take culpability for our own actions and begin to take action when we believe America is being run into the ground by corrupt individuals playing god at our expense?? This is a country for the people and by the people but we have allowed that to fritter away as it has become a country for the rich and poweful people and by the rich and powerful people. Machiavelli discusses this in detail and historically the results are the same. Failing to take responsibility for our own actions results in our NOT forcing our government and Big businesses to take responsibility for thier own actions. We the people have lost the moral high ground as we fail to accept responsibilities for our mistakes be it bad purchases we make, over extending our credit amounts or even failing to raise our children to be good individuals. After all isn't it the fault of the system when our children turn out to be not such great individuals?? NAWWT. It is a vicious cycle that results in the failure of the system... time after time after time.
Sorry for the rant and the appearance of being callus, but I am not now and never have been politically correct.
I hate what we allowed the banking and lending industry to become. I detest the fact we allowed gross profits and salaries in the past and present for these companies and their executives. I hate it repeats itself in the oil and commodity sectors. But whose fault is this???? Its ours.
Okay Im done now. Sorry to take up your time and page space. I am sure I will catch heck for this line of thought but for this American, who is just as guilty as anyone for allowing the above to take place, I am doing what I can to say enough of the nonsense and lets buckle up and get us all back on the right track. High Morals and ethics in business begin with high morals and ethics in our own lives. We need to take culpability for our own decisions.
David Lereah, former chief forecaster for the National Association of Realtors (and a man often ridiculed for saying there was no housing bubble) now has changed his tune dramatically:
"We're not at the bottom," he says. "[People] want it to be near the bottom, but we're not there yet. The leading indicators are still very bad. Pending home sales are still in bad shape. Mortgage applications are low … There's still supply out there in abundance … This thing is going to get worse before it gets better."
Remember, this comes from a guy who wrote a book called Why the Real Estate Boom Will Not Bust...
"I didn't think this would turn into an all-out bursting of a balloon for the whole nation"
Then why would you quote him? He is a turkey when he works for NAR but a brilliant guy when he doesn't?
RE is local. Las Vegas is well past the bottom volume wise and will likely be past the bottom on price this summer or fall. The US will likely trail behind that by a long period.
I am still not sure why we continue to blame C.W. or any of the lenders for our failures. I do not remember seeing anywhere on my loan documents where they are obligated to make life easier on us if we either cannot pay the loan or choose not to pay the loan. I do not doubt CW has and continues to be run into the ground while B of A waits to see if they can lower their offer to 1 or 2 dollars per share. Berkshire Hathaway rarely screws up on anything. In the end, should they choose to still purchase the company they will do so at a cost less than the value of just the infrastructure. That is just the nature of big business. Right or wrong that is the way it is in this country as we, the American citizens, have given them the power to do so.
I just do not understand anyones concept where the lenders should rewrite the loans as the values of homes continue to drop. Did the loan agreement state the lenders would enjoy the benefit should your home have gone up in value or guarentee the borrower would continue to make money as theri properties values skyrocketed?? No. Housing is no different from other big businesses who are struggling in todays economy. If anyone has purchased a new vehicle on credit we know the moment we drive the car off the lot we generally have lost 10 -20% of the vehicles value including tax and license. Should those lenders be required to lower their loan amount when the individual says "Hey, my car is no longer worth what I paid for it". No one has a right to tell me how to run my business thus I will not tell CW or the banks how to run their. However I do not purchase their stock nor support those companies in any way other than getting the best loans I can for my properties. If I feel their rates are too high I just don't purchase.
Did anyone break a borrowers arm to make them sign up for a loan they potentially could not afford??? Did the lenders force the individuals to accept an ARM with a low starting interest because the borrower could not qualify for a fixed rate loan?? Did the lenders force us to refinance our properties to take out some of that great equity we had accrued and use it for our vacation to Maui or to buy a new car?? Are the lenders liable because we chose NOT to read the contracts or do our own due diligence to see if we could afford the payments when those ARMS adjusted?? Since when did we as Americans decide a contract is only valid as long as we are happy with the results???
I understand very well the nature of the economy and its effect on the housing market and most all markets. I do not wish to see anyone pushed out of their homes as they go upside down, lose their jobs or ARMS adjust to a point where the home owner can no longer afford the payments. But when did this world become Eden?? When did it become some playground where no bad things happen. And more importantly when did OUR making mistakes become someone elses burden?? And when does it become acceptable to blame the EVIL loan companies for offering us such great teaser rates that we failed to analyze and put our names on the dotted line without any regard for what might happen down the road??
The real question I am asking is when do we as the American Public take culpability for our own actions and begin to take action when we believe America is being run into the ground by corrupt individuals playing god at our expense?? This is a country for the people and by the people but we have allowed that to fritter away as it has become a country for the rich and poweful people and by the rich and powerful people. Machiavelli discusses this in detail and historically the results are the same. Failing to take responsibility for our own actions results in our NOT forcing our government and Big businesses to take responsibility for thier own actions. We the people have lost the moral high ground as we fail to accept responsibilities for our mistakes be it bad purchases we make, over extending our credit amounts or even failing to raise our children to be good individuals. After all isn't it the fault of the system when our children turn out to be not such great individuals?? NAWWT. It is a vicious cycle that results in the failure of the system... time after time after time.
Sorry for the rant and the appearance of being callus, but I am not now and never have been politically correct.
I hate what we allowed the banking and lending industry to become. I detest the fact we allowed gross profits and salaries in the past and present for these companies and their executives. I hate it repeats itself in the oil and commodity sectors. But whose fault is this???? Its ours.
Okay Im done now. Sorry to take up your time and page space. I am sure I will catch heck for this line of thought but for this American, who is just as guilty as anyone for allowing the above to take place, I am doing what I can to say enough of the nonsense and lets buckle up and get us all back on the right track. High Morals and ethics in business begin with high morals and ethics in our own lives. We need to take culpability for our own decisions.
FOD
Might I suggest you rant one or two or even three paragraphs at a time?
You and I do not agree across a wide spectrum. I suspect that you are a convinced libertarian...a believer in the great sandcastle.
But I think we need to dispute the territory in smaller pieces.
As to the lead in paragraph we are blaiming CW for their lack of functionality. They have broken down and don't function in ways required of them. That leaves everyone in limbo unable to proceed.
As to their guilt they have plenty. A con does not involve physcial violence. It uses various psychological ploys...often including unreasonably good rewards and the hint of illegality to convince people to do things not in their best interest. CW has lots of fingers in that pie. I suspect we will see criminal indictments involving CW personnel if not the corporation. There are practical reasons why the corporations often escape.
first off, i have no financial difficulties with my homes, i own 3 of them... if you read what i was saying fish, if the loans are rewritten, the payment goes down instead of the house being foreclosed on... it is a matter of make some money in the long run or lose now... a prime example is the bank owned home that i purchased in february.. in 06 it was purchased for 478k, in 07 it was foreclosed on, the guy owed 428k, countrywide buys at auction for 326k in late 07, i come in in february and buy for 252k... even though countrywide bought their own note, they still lost an additional 74k... if they would have lowered the payment, they would still be collecting from the original guy and if he would have sold the house in say 10yrs for 450, they would have gotten their money.... noone is asking the bank to rewrite the loan down to say 252 with 428 actually owed... payments would be based on the 252 and then when the house sold, they would collect off of the 428....
but hey, keep it the way it is, people are losing houses left and right, and i will buy another one and rent it... the rent exceeds the mortgage at this point, so it doesnt matter whether i buy now or later (if it actually goes farther down)
In no way was I stating your idea was or was not a good one but what I was saying is when we the people think we can control other peoples businesses, regardless if we have a great way to do it, then we are destroying the fabric of this country. That said, our purchasing dollars can do the demanding if we are savvy and smart and do not give validity to those companies poor business practices by obtaining loans or purchasing product from them or others like them in the future. Unless we are dealing with monopolies, which we do have in this country and are running amok, we should not meddle in the right of any business owner to run his or her company poorly just as we as individuals have the right to run our own finances as well or as poorly as we see fit. I am stating if we do run our personal events poorly we should be the ones to take responsibility for it.
It is apparent you run your finances with knowledge rather than desperation. You have obviously taken the time to review the process and evaluate cost vs. return. You have also been able to distinguish between perceived value, actual value and cost. Once again, Contrary to Real Estate Agents popular belief, Comps are NOT the only test of the present or future value of a property. These are 3 ingredients everyone should take the time to learn if they are going to enter the real estate market. Good for you. However, those who do not take the time or effort to learn these valuable lessons are doomed to make mistakes and who should be responsible for those mistakes????? THEY should be and yes, folks like you and I will be there to use our knowledge to hopefully further our own finances. I am willing to bet if you or I make the wrong decision we will make it right rather than walk away from it. I state that without even knowing you. I continue to believe in the gathering of knowledge before making potentially life changing decisions. I continue to state in these posts potential buyers and sellers should learn all they can and not just listen to the so called experts. With the advancements in the internet the ability to keep up with market trends, independent analysis as well as performing ones own analysis is of paramount importance. Listening to a broker or agent is NOT as their agenda is to get paid, yours is to stay solvent. Vegas is a tricky market for real estate and all of us need to keep up with everything we can learn about the area if we are to succeed in this arena be it for investment or residence. Oviously I still believe there is good monies to be made here in Las Vegas in the future but not right now. But hey thats just me.
FOD
Last edited by fishordie; 05-07-2008 at 04:02 PM..
I am still not sure why we continue to blame C.W. or any of the lenders for our failures. I do not remember seeing anywhere on my loan documents where they are obligated to make life easier on us if we either cannot pay the loan or choose not to pay the loan. I do not doubt CW has and continues to be run into the ground while B of A waits to see if they can lower their offer to 1 or 2 dollars per share. Berkshire Hathaway rarely screws up on anything. In the end, should they choose to still purchase the company they will do so at a cost less than the value of just the infrastructure. That is just the nature of big business. Right or wrong that is the way it is in this country as we, the American citizens, have given them the power to do so.
I just do not understand anyones concept where the lenders should rewrite the loans as the values of homes continue to drop. Did the loan agreement state the lenders would enjoy the benefit should your home have gone up in value or guarentee the borrower would continue to make money as theri properties values skyrocketed?? No. Housing is no different from other big businesses who are struggling in todays economy. If anyone has purchased a new vehicle on credit we know the moment we drive the car off the lot we generally have lost 10 -20% of the vehicles value including tax and license. Should those lenders be required to lower their loan amount when the individual says "Hey, my car is no longer worth what I paid for it". No one has a right to tell me how to run my business thus I will not tell CW or the banks how to run their. However I do not purchase their stock nor support those companies in any way other than getting the best loans I can for my properties. If I feel their rates are too high I just don't purchase.
Did anyone break a borrowers arm to make them sign up for a loan they potentially could not afford??? Did the lenders force the individuals to accept an ARM with a low starting interest because the borrower could not qualify for a fixed rate loan?? Did the lenders force us to refinance our properties to take out some of that great equity we had accrued and use it for our vacation to Maui or to buy a new car?? Are the lenders liable because we chose NOT to read the contracts or do our own due diligence to see if we could afford the payments when those ARMS adjusted?? Since when did we as Americans decide a contract is only valid as long as we are happy with the results???
I understand very well the nature of the economy and its effect on the housing market and most all markets. I do not wish to see anyone pushed out of their homes as they go upside down, lose their jobs or ARMS adjust to a point where the home owner can no longer afford the payments. But when did this world become Eden?? When did it become some playground where no bad things happen. And more importantly when did OUR making mistakes become someone elses burden?? And when does it become acceptable to blame the EVIL loan companies for offering us such great teaser rates that we failed to analyze and put our names on the dotted line without any regard for what might happen down the road??
The real question I am asking is when do we as the American Public take culpability for our own actions and begin to take action when we believe America is being run into the ground by corrupt individuals playing god at our expense?? This is a country for the people and by the people but we have allowed that to fritter away as it has become a country for the rich and poweful people and by the rich and powerful people. Machiavelli discusses this in detail and historically the results are the same. Failing to take responsibility for our own actions results in our NOT forcing our government and Big businesses to take responsibility for thier own actions. We the people have lost the moral high ground as we fail to accept responsibilities for our mistakes be it bad purchases we make, over extending our credit amounts or even failing to raise our children to be good individuals. After all isn't it the fault of the system when our children turn out to be not such great individuals?? NAWWT. It is a vicious cycle that results in the failure of the system... time after time after time.
Sorry for the rant and the appearance of being callus, but I am not now and never have been politically correct.
I hate what we allowed the banking and lending industry to become. I detest the fact we allowed gross profits and salaries in the past and present for these companies and their executives. I hate it repeats itself in the oil and commodity sectors. But whose fault is this???? Its ours.
Okay Im done now. Sorry to take up your time and page space. I am sure I will catch heck for this line of thought but for this American, who is just as guilty as anyone for allowing the above to take place, I am doing what I can to say enough of the nonsense and lets buckle up and get us all back on the right track. High Morals and ethics in business begin with high morals and ethics in our own lives. We need to take culpability for our own decisions.
FOD
Man, I agree with this completely. Someone who is telling like it is! There were so many good things said, I had to highlight them all.
Its funny that the federal gov't will bail out huge financial corporations but not individual homeowners. If only there were a homeowner's lobby in Washington DC!
i think that the lenders should rewrite the loans to what the house is worth... lets say you owe 225k on a house worth 150k, the loan should be rewritten to 150k.. when it comes time to sell the house, the lender gets up to the 225k (if 225 is still owed), you keep the difference.. if you sell for less, you pay whatever is owed to the lender up to 150...
And you really think someone who cant afford their payments now can come up with cash later if their house value tanks?
Personally if you rewrite some you need to rewrite all homeowners because there are people out there who can and do pay their mortgage who are 10s of thousands of dollars underwater because Joe Blow #6789 had an ARM, lost his house, which the bank put on the market for 40% below market, which drove down house values. So in my book, Joe Blow owes the good neighbor paying his mortgage some cash for driving down home values due to his foreclosure based on a inability to realize that a 1% APR would not last forever.
they dont have to come up with cash later if the value tanks.. that is the risk of the lender.. and I believe that all the loans would have to be rewritten, not just the idiots who dont know how to budget or bought more than they can chew..
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