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Are you sure there aren't other instances of privatization that worked?
I read somewhere about "Foothill Transit" in LA taking over some areas at a fraction of the cost and the service improved 10 fold. Not really sure about private options, I would just get rid of it or raise the fares along with fliers to every rider showing them a snapshot of LIBUS' balance sheet and where their money is going (MTA).
There could be, I don't really know....but if they do exist, I'd really like to know how they possibly make any money. In the study you linked to it mentions that were LI Bus to privatize, it would lose ALL of it's state subsidies....which make up the largest portion of it's funding by far. It also says that the difference could be made up by a roughly 20% fare hike, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense mathematically (and still doesn't account for any actual profit). If privatization would somehow work, I'm all for it and I hope they start today!
I Googled Foothill Transit and it appears to be akin to a public benefit corporation in New York (what the MTA is) shared between several cities in Los Angeles County. However unlike New York, they are able to employ non-union labor to keep costs low....actually, the whole creation of FT seems pretty radical: apparently the LA County Supervisor at the time was so fed up with the inefficiency and expense of the area's regional bus service (RFT) that he decided to form his own! Wouldn't that be great? If Mangano decided "hey, screw the MTA I'll start my own bus company" and started running a competing service? LOL. Unfortunately, I'm sure that wouldn't even be a possibility in New York because of state labor laws.
Speaking of which, we shouldn't really be pointing the finger of blame squarely at the MTA itself. I've been looking around at similar sized operations in the Northeast US on the NTDB website and they have really kept non-salary expenses for LI Bus extremely low. I believe combining all of the MTA's separate bus operations under one regional banner, plus recycling old NYCT vehicles for Nassau routes is largely to thank for that. However, there is no amount of thrift that can counteract the insane $20 million+ payroll increase over the last FIVE YEARS.
The whole dispute between Nassau County and the MTA is kind of secondary to the fact that LI Bus, like everything else in this ass-backwards state, costs twice as much to operate as it should.....because everything in New York is run not according to need or demand, not according to sensible spending, not according to logic, oversight or making this a desirable place to live - it's run first and foremost according to everyone who matters getting PAID through the "collective bargaining" farce. Should Nassau County contribute more of a subsidy? PERHAPS! 9% seems extremely low compared to other similar systems. But should ANYONE have to pay another nickel so a handful of union members can get a raise while the rest of the state rots? Absolutely not....and I applaud Nassau County and Ed Mangano for publicly taking a firm stand on this. If no one in Albany is going to grow a pair and stand up to antique legislation that is crippling the state in every possible regard, then local politicians need to get creative to make any kind of difference.
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Originally Posted by kevink1955
Take the number of riders and the number of busses at 3 to 4 MPG and tell me how green this is. I know some are now natural gas powered and some are even hybrid but in the end it still is a big waste of fuel.
In the mean time the auto makers are taxed for large vehicles (and pass it on to the purchaser) that do not get good mileage, so you are telling me I cannot drive a large SUV alone but a bus can run with 3 passengers most of it's route.
Granted the routes around colleges may be packed, also the Mall routes. So again we (motorists) are paying to bring customers to the mall.
100% of the bus fleet runs on CNG, though none are hybrids. 110,000 daily riders and 312 buses.....and I can't imagine anywhere near ALL of them are in service daily, since there are only 48 total routes and of those several are "limited service" and the majority run just once an hour. So lets say a generous 250 buses running a day, which means each bus is carrying roughly 440 people per day. That's definitely a lot "greener" than if those people were in individual cars!
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Originally Posted by Johninwestbury
If a bus line is carrying only a few passengers for most of its trip, it should be eliminated. Or a "minibus" used.
Most bus routes carry well over that, but there are a few I have listed. In Nassau that would be the N50,N51, N80, N62, and N73. These get very little ridership because they often redundent.
In Suffolk there's more routes that carry very little, such as the S76 I mentioned, as well as some "feeder" routes like the 6B, 7B, 5A,etc. The route that was brought up in Amityville, I think its called the 1B or something and its suprising its still around.
In Suffolk though smaller 30ft buses are used on these routes.
Of course if these routes arent carrying anyone why are they still running? It would make more sense to cut those routes and put the buses on the busy lines that need more equipment.
N73/N74 is one of the routes that is walking distance to me, and it's always empty. That could definitely be replaced by a much smaller bus....though I think a decent number of people in Levittown use it to get to the Hicksville LIRR station. I only ever took it to Wantagh or up north at off-peak hours. N62 is the one I used to take in Freeport, and I'm surprised that more people don't utilize it to get down to the Nautical Mile (it's the only bus that goes down there) but then again, like I mentioned - it's a ridiculous 25-30 minute layover from any LIRR train. The MTA should run some kind of "PUB CRAWL" bus from there to RVC or something....that would be pretty cool. Play music and have a disco ball on the bus LOL. I'm joking but that would probably make a lot of money!!
If privatization would somehow work, I'm all for it and I hope they start today!
I Googled Foothill Transit and it appears to be akin to a public benefit corporation in New York (what the MTA is) shared between several cities in Los Angeles County. However unlike New York, they are able to employ non-union labor to keep costs low....actually, the whole creation of FT seems pretty radical: apparently the LA County Supervisor at the time was so fed up with the inefficiency and expense of the area's regional bus service (RFT) that he decided to form his own! Wouldn't that be great? If Mangano decided "hey, screw the MTA I'll start my own bus company" and started running a competing service? LOL. Unfortunately, I'm sure that wouldn't even be a possibility in New York because of state labor laws.
Agreed. If privatization worked, that would be a beautiful thing to see happen. Mangano's definitely got the balls to do something like this. We'll see how it plays out over the next 2 months. I hope Nassau holds the line on this.
Quote:
Speaking of which, we shouldn't really be pointing the finger of blame squarely at the MTA itself. I've been looking around at similar sized operations in the Northeast US on the NTDB website and they have really kept non-salary expenses for LI Bus extremely low. I believe combining all of the MTA's separate bus operations under one regional banner, plus recycling old NYCT vehicles for Nassau routes is largely to thank for that. However, there is no amount of thrift that can counteract the insane $20 million+ payroll increase over the last FIVE YEARS.
Let's hope that MTA keeping non-Salary expenses low isn't to hide the Salary portion exploding in size the last 5 years. Imagine if an audit found these buses to be seriously neglected/ corners cut to keep the entire balance sheet looking clean (while we know it's really bloated).
Quote:
The whole dispute between Nassau County and the MTA is kind of secondary to the fact that LI Bus, like everything else in this ass-backwards state, costs twice as much to operate as it should.....because everything in New York is run not according to need or demand, not according to sensible spending, not according to logic, oversight or making this a desirable place to live - it's run first and foremost according to everyone who matters getting PAID through the "collective bargaining" farce.
....and I applaud Nassau County and Ed Mangano for publicly taking a firm stand on this. If no one in Albany is going to grow a pair and stand up to antique legislation that is crippling the state in every possible regard, then local politicians need to get creative to make any kind of difference.
Couldn't have put it any better. Mangano has Nassau county's interest in mind 100%. Makes me SMH at the disaster Suozzi left behind for us to deal with .
Quote:
The MTA should run some kind of "PUB CRAWL" bus from there to RVC or something....that would be pretty cool. Play music and have a disco ball on the bus LOL. I'm joking but that would probably make a lot of money!!
HAHA that would be an awesome idea. Or even a private limo company using a couple Limo buses on the weekends to run routes to these spots. That would be a big money maker imo.
If you shut the buses down, you destroy Nassau's economy. NCC students wont be able to get to school (a vast majority of them use LI Bus), stores wont be able to get workers, many businesses will shut down. A vast amount of folks also come over from here from Queens to shop and use LIB. So bye bye tax revenue. Many ppl wont be able to get to work and lose their jobs and show up at the welfare office. And the rich snobs who hire the day laborers to clean their lawns wont be happy either when they'll have to mow their own lawn.
I got a newsflash for ya, the roads are clogged to capacity, and we dont have room for more cars. We need more buses and more people riding them. I see plenty of ppl who can afford lxury SUV's at 10mpg so a small increase in the gas tax could easily pay for LIB. Bus drivers have the responsibility of 40 or more people and deserve to paid well.
Amazing how some folks can be so short sighted.
But not suprising.
I fully agree here.
I don't see how privatization would work as a lot of the routes don't even make money. There's not enough N6's in the world to balance that out. Something has to be done, maybe if the MTA operated and improved the heavier routes (that might pay for itself) while the light routes can be privatized and utilize smaller buses. Idk.
I dont know where you're at, but hang around Westbury, Roosevelt Field, and Glen Cove and there are alot more than "1-3" people on each bus.
The only routes that I noticed that are busy are those going into Queens and the N40/41 from Mineola to Freeport and the N35. The rest are usually half full at best. Isn't tke Bee-Line privatized? That system has a larger ridership than LI bus and a smaller population. Do the same for LI bus. They don't have issues with public transportation so they must be doing something right up there.
The only routes that I noticed that are busy are those going into Queens and the N40/41 from Mineola to Freeport and the N35. The rest are usually half full at best. Isn't tke Bee-Line privatized? That system has a larger ridership than LI bus and a smaller population. Do the same for LI bus. They don't have issues with public transportation so they must be doing something right up there.
Suffolk County bus riders may soon see their first fare hike in nearly two decades if lawmakers override County Executive Steve Levy's veto of the increase, which aims to fund new Sunday service on some routes.
The county legislature last month voted for a pilot program to increase the fare for Suffolk County Transit buses from $1.50 to $2 to pay for the expanded service.
Anyone hear of any new developments for Nassau County LI Bus?
As per NIFA's 12/30/10 letter with questions about Mangano's proposed budget, it appears he is going to pull all (or most ... I don't know the exact amount) of Nassau's funding from LI Bus:
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(while we know it's really bloated).
.
