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Actually most of those other states do just fine, if not better than here
Then how do you explain New York State coming in second place (out of 51) in the nation in terms of education? Your perception is far from reality.
It may interest you to know that I was born and raised on Long Island, but in 1995 I applied for and got a teaching job upstate...because it was for 15K MORE than what I was being offered on Long Island. This same district also gave me a retirement incentive that necessitated my retirement at age 55. It was so good that I would have been a fool not to take it. The reason I mention this is not to make you upset, but you must realize that other districts are offering talented teachers much more in compensation. This draws quality educators away from LI districts if the LI schools don't keep up. BTW, when I started teaching on Long Island the salary was dismal. After eight years, my salary was only 35K (1980). So I resigned and went into business for a while.
If I lived in Northport surrounded by Wall Street families, I would say that teachers are paid well and might deserve a little more. Since I live in East Northport, the best paid people I know are public servants - firefighters, cops and teachers. For as long as public servants with BAs are the wealthiest people in any neighborhood they are going to have to deal with heat for their incomes. They are literally relying on mechanics and burger-flippers for their lifestyles. These aren't union guys working for Grumman paying their salaries any longer.
That said, I think teachers should be paid very well. We know that compensation is an incentive. If you want good teachers, you need good carrots. You don't want your New York school system "drawing" teachers like you find in Florida - among the worst compensated in the country.
Balance is the answer. Soon, teachers unions will be asked by districts all over Long Island for concessions on their fixed benefits; property tax revenues are dropping, and yet medical premiums are rising at more than 10% a year almost uniformly. That is unsustainable and portends a real PR problem for teachers unions.
I support teachers. I support unions. I'm well aware of the relationship between my property values and the quality of my schools. Nevertheless, teachers unions being unreasonable in their negotiations is going to cause them serious trouble and is likely to create, over time, a political alignment with the anti-tax crowd - the GOP. In the long run, teachers will do themselves a great disservice if they dig their heals in real deep. I can empathize with them only so much as I can afford it - or am willing to eat beans in order to pay my property taxes.
I think back to the bond issue two years ago for a new football field (the bond wrapped in tennis courts, lockers, lights, you name it). I thought it was the height of arrogance and reflected just how out of touch the school board was at the time. I have no reason to believe anything has changed. I don't predict very good things for the schools or the democrats in the near future.
Though I'm a bleeding heart liberal, my opinions about these things are nuanced. Liberals need to be smart. It isn't the 1920s any more. Unions aren't fighting to save lives or end child labor. They are fighting for golden benefits packages that surpass what many of the people in their neighborhoods get. There is something wrong there.
If I lived in Northport surrounded by Wall Street families, I would say that teachers are paid well and might deserve a little more. Since I live in East Northport, the best paid people I know are public servants - firefighters, cops and teachers. For as long as public servants with BAs are the wealthiest people in any neighborhood they are going to have to deal with heat for their incomes. They are literally relying on mechanics and burger-flippers for their lifestyles. These aren't union guys working for Grumman paying their salaries any longer.
That said, I think teachers should be paid very well. We know that compensation is an incentive. If you want good teachers, you need good carrots. You don't want your New York school system "drawing" teachers like you find in Florida - among the worst compensated in the country.
Balance is the answer. Soon, teachers unions will be asked by districts all over Long Island for concessions on their fixed benefits; property tax revenues are dropping, and yet medical premiums are rising at more than 10% a year almost uniformly. That is unsustainable and portends a real PR problem for teachers unions.
I support teachers. I support unions. I'm well aware of the relationship between my property values and the quality of my schools. Nevertheless, teachers unions being unreasonable in their negotiations is going to cause them serious trouble and is likely to create, over time, a political alignment with the anti-tax crowd - the GOP. In the long run, teachers will do themselves a great disservice if they dig their heals in real deep. I can empathize with them only so much as I can afford it - or am willing to eat beans in order to pay my property taxes.
I think back to the bond issue two years ago for a new football field (the bond wrapped in tennis courts, lockers, lights, you name it). I thought it was the height of arrogance and reflected just how out of touch the school board was at the time. I have no reason to believe anything has changed. I don't predict very good things for the schools or the democrats in the near future.
Though I'm a bleeding heart liberal, my opinions about these things are nuanced. Liberals need to be smart. It isn't the 1920s any more. Unions aren't fighting to save lives or end child labor. They are fighting for golden benefits packages that surpass what many of the people in their neighborhoods get. There is something wrong there.
Great post! I'm not saying let's go back to the 1980's when teachers like fastrudy left the profession b/c the pay sucked. But what we have today is the other extreme. Now the teachers have the great pay, the primo benefits, and the job security. Most people in the private sector, if they have a job, are lucky if they have 1 of the 3 attributes I just mentioned. A balance is definitely needed, and now is the time for civil servants to start giving back with regards to their benefits.
Don't you see [it all = out]. You're paying more but getting more. It all balances out....... unless you move and take it with you.
Making 100,000 NY = 60,000 VA
Making 60,00 VA = 100,000 NY
Making 100,000 in VA Big difference
That's a good point. A very good point.
Some folks on this thread are complaining that their wages aren't keeping up with their cost of living. I had fired back that if you want to get more value for your dollar, move to another state.
But really, what is happening is that teacher salaries and civil service salaries have kept pace with the cost of living on Long Island, when private sector salaries here have not.
That just makes me dig my heels in about people in the private sector standing up for themselves, actually.
But, you know, it's easier to tear others down than to build oneself up, and it's easier to demonize the civil service for having the chutzpah to get organized than to stick one's own neck out to improve one's own situation.
As someone else said, if the complainers are that angry, go to a board meeting, get involved. Grousing about it on a bulletin board isn't going to change anything. It's all just self-righteous blather to make themselves feel better about their own lousy situations.
Now the teachers have the great pay, the primo benefits, and the job security. Most people in the private sector, if they have a job, are lucky if they have 1 of the 3 attributes I just mentioned.
And whose private-sector fault is that for putting up with it?
Again, so much easier to tear others down than to change one's own situation.
Last edited by Yzette; 02-15-2010 at 10:42 AM..
Reason: Grammar, ye gods.
But really, what is happening is that teacher salaries and civil service salaries have kept pace with the cost of living on Long Island, when private sector salaries here have not.
.
Exactly. Back in the day when Wall street was doing better than the public sector no one had any complaints.
And whose private-sector fault is that for putting up with it?
Again, so much easier to tear others down than to change one's own situation.
The public sector has what they have due to the Taylor law and some corrupt politicians... Add some fear mongering to it as well ( cut police pay and crime goes up, cut teacher pay and kids can't read). The fact is the only reason public employees get away with what they have is that taxes can be increased. And they sure have.
I also agree with the other poster that if you don't own a home, get lost. You biased views have no credibility here.
The public sector has what they have due to the Taylor law and some corrupt politicians... Add some fear mongering to it as well ( cut police pay and crime goes up, cut teacher pay and kids can't read). The fact is the only reason public employees get away with what they have is that taxes can be increased. And they sure have.
I also agree with the other poster that if you don't own a home, get lost. You biased views have no credibility here.
In case some of you aren't familiar with the taylor law that this guy is crying about this is it.
The Public Employees Fair Employment Act (more commonly known as the Taylor Law) refers to Article 14 of the New York State Civil Service Law, which defines the rights and limitations of unions for public employees in New York.
New York State statute named for labor researcher George W. Taylor authorizing a governor-appointed State Public Employment Relations Board to resolve contract disputes for public employees while curtailing their right to strike
Exactly. Back in the day when Wall street was doing better than the public sector no one had any complaints.
Government jobs were intended to pay less than the private sector but have job security and better benefits. Now, all 3 exist for the government jobs and the tax pagers cannot afford it. You are a biased public sector employee... At least ID yourself and be honest here.
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LI Teachers are paid well
