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I can't help but think back toa year ago when a man tried to rob a pharmacy in Nassau county. An off-duty ATF agent was accidentally shot by a retired police officer when both tried to intervene in the robbery. Both of them were well trained and familiar with using guns on daily basis and yet this tragic thing happened.
Arming teachers? No thank you.
Very good point. Back when I was in junior high a teacher held his class hostage all day before killing himself. So as stated in previous treads yes teachers can and do have bad days so giving them a gun is not a good idea. Plus think of the kids who may be running in a panic and teachers shooting at someone, I can easily see a child getting hit in the cross fire.
How many teachers now own and use guns, do you think it would be NONE.
When i go to the range from now on i'll make it a point to see what everyone there does for a living.
IM sure there are atleast a few teachers probably in every school that are shooters.
Now your seeing the PROBLEM, you can stop a madman if you are prepared, but you think taking AWAY is going to save you.. Keep reading this...
A proper person for the job could stop a madman
I'll never understand how people believe that banning something will make it all safe...
I can't remember how many but there have been a few, i remember one just recently starting at a game on school property...
BUT here is the thing....that no one see's
Put in those bullet proof doors, those windows, but still no active prevention on grounds and not allowing those teachers who want to and are proficient with one to have it...
Now here is how the person hell bent on killing thinks, they want to kill and they want the least opposition, so surely none head to the police dept....
But you got your wish and you have a locked down school and camera's all over to CATCH this...so you can watch it over and over....
He barrels into the building with a car, right thru the bullet proof doors, or better yet right thru the kindergarten classroom wall...
He's inside and starts shooting away at everything in front of the barrel at close range, can't miss unopposed....
It's like having a brick and a 5 gallon pail with 100 flies with no wings and you just get to drop the brick at your leisure and kill them all...
So you got your 500,000 upgraded doors and windows at the main entrance and other entrances points and exits...
But you didn't have any armed shooters where they needed to be..... INSIDE. . . .
That's awesome, even worse would be a person hell bent on killing REALLY using their head, and im not about to put the details for some asshat to see it here and try it out, just like 9-11 there was something easier that would have killed tens of thousands but they were hell bent on removing the twin towers.
So now you need another million or probably more for anti car bollard devices...
When what you really need to do is to allow those teachers or staff that have guns to maybe do some slight training with the police and now another simple and easy task ... have the police use the school for bathrooms and changing out shifts.
Having the police use the schools for bathroom use and shift change would be something that could deter many mental patients hell bent on killing to try another target..
As for the assault weapon bs, the right person with a bolt action can kill enough people as the mental patient in Conn did with a semi auto, a true assault rifle depending on the one used and the mental patient using it won't be as accurate as a semi or bolt action, a mental patient hell bent on killing can walk in with a bolt action have 8 in his hand go thru whats in that mag throw in another 2, 3, 4 at time quick enough that you can't get close enough before the barrel is on you again and disarming him without a gun...
Having a person with a gun on staff won't save everyone, but it will save more, having a person who's only job is to look for that mental patient would and should stop them from ever gaining entry or getting them as they race thru the doors without any student or admin getting hurt.
A person hell bent on killing isn't walking up to the door or window without being seen with a weapon.
Just like in Conn, locked doors, shot his way in, then shot every unarmed person looking to stand in front of that barrel and make it easier, it also helps to pay attention to your surroundings wherever you are.
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Or the madman will just wait till school lets out and shoot the kids as they walk to the school bus. I do not think guns or all the barricading or lock downs will solve anything, the schools just need to keep better watch on who is coming onto the grounds, maybe a guard booth at the entrance to monitor who comes in and again thats not stopping anyone really. A parent, lets say a father going through a divorce can go to the school to pick up their child as they normally do so the people their sort of know him and then he can do something tragic because he doesnt want the wife to take the kid away from him and he wants to hurt the wife. How many times has something like that happened in real life at home. Basically I see no real solution, its just one of those things were you try to just live your life because you never really know what tomorrow brings.
I think training and having more escape routes would help. It will be controlled by someone in the main office and a couple other backup locations... if there's an emergency, they can unlock all the extra escape routes from there and let kids out.
The problem with giving more people guns is more chaos and leaving life-and-death decisions up to your average joe. Think what would happen if the Colorado movie theater shooter were met by concealed carry people. One guy in the theater starts returning fire and someone on the other side of the theater with a gun does what? How is he supposed to determine if that guy is another shooter or not? Multiply that by the number of concealed carries in a dark theater. And perhaps you have people dragging their kids out with a gun in hand trying to defend themselves in case they run across another shooter. How is Joe Blow with a CCW across the way supposed to know it's not a kidnapping in progress? At what point does he use his weapon to protect himself and others? MASS CHAOS.
People want freedom of choice, freedom to protect themselves... yet these same people may not be able to trust a guy with as much as driving a vehicle next to them on the road. In my opinion, keep the guns at home where the only people they can hurt are minimized - and its real purpose - self defense, preserved. As for a criminal's fear of firearm opposition? Over 49% of households in the US have firearms. Yet home invasions, with people inside, still occur. And those aren't even madmen with a true deathwish.
Having more guns out there to combat these types of massacres in public - not the answer. You will have more accidents than potential massacres.
As a holder of a CHP I agree with your post above except for the following...
Quote:
I think training and having more escape routes would help. It will be controlled by someone in the main office and a couple other backup locations... if there's an emergency, they can unlock all the extra escape routes from there and let kids out.
Escape routes that are locked both outside and inside would break several fire codes. At this point locked down buildings and fire codes don't mix.
I think training and having more escape routes would help. It will be controlled by someone in the main office and a couple other backup locations... if there's an emergency, they can unlock all the extra escape routes from there and let kids out.
Isn't the point of an escape/egress route to allow escape? having them centrally controlled doesnt help.
Isn't the point of an escape/egress route to allow escape? having them centrally controlled doesnt help.
I'm talking about additional egress in each room, say the size of a regular door leading outside which would allow for panic'd kids to get out easier & quicker instead of waiting for each of them to climb through a large window.
Speaking from a pre-school / elementary age parent's mindset, you have these locked (or at least alarmed) to keep wandering kids in.
What kind of egress are existing for fire code - it's been a while since I've been in a classroom. Remember, some kids had to run right past the shooter when Ms. Soto was shot. It was their only way out (??).
I'm talking about additional egress in each room, say the size of a regular door leading outside which would allow for panic'd kids to get out easier & quicker instead of waiting for each of them to climb through a large window.
Speaking from a pre-school / elementary age parent's mindset, you have these locked (or at least alarmed) to keep wandering kids in.
What kind of egress are existing for fire code - it's been a while since I've been in a classroom. Remember, some kids had to run right past the shooter when Ms. Soto was shot. It was their only way out (??).
My kid's school already has this 2nd door from the classroom leading outside.
Current Fire code requires at least 2 ways in and out of the room. Older buildings are grandfathered in.
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